Do we use God's grace as a get out of jail free card? (abominations, churches)
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I don't really feel like debating this entire topic with you
Too bad. It could have been productive.
Quote:
so I will address this last thing you said.
If ALL people reject God, then why are YOU a Christian? In fact why would ANYONE be a Christian, if they ALL reject God? Doesn't make much sense, does it?
Apart from the grace of God, you're right, it doesn't make much sense. The only reason anyone comes to Christ is because they are born again.
I am being convicted over a "Christian" friend who battles with porn and I have not been entirely honest with him about my opinions based on scripture when he asks me because he was told by a pastor that he is still saved, he says, "just keep praying to God to deliver you from this particular sin" all the while he is still looking at it and then crying to me that God isn't anwering his prayers. Really is my friend saved? He still has the account, he makes time during the day, he sits at the computer, fires it up and then logs on. Do we Christians use God's grace as a get out of jail free card? I can understand a Christian who cusses in the fit of rage and is praying to God for more patience and self control. I see that as falling into sin but a Christian who has to go through all these steps to look at porn is diving headfirst, swimming in sin. Is my friend truly saved? Where is the Holy Spirit in all this?
What really is God's grace and is it what most of us think it is. Is it a free ticket into heaven all the while being tolerant and coexisting with our pet sins or is it a grace He bestowes to deliver us from the power of sin? Do we Christians make light of our pet sin, take for granted God's grace and mercy. We commit the act and say, God will forgive me? I know I do this. Doesn't that make my friend and I hypocrites? and is guilt enough to know you are saved?
I have heard atheists question us on this many times. That we can do anything and get away with it
(Revelations 3:16) 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
The Holy Spirit is convicting us of our wrongdoing but some will stay in their sins even though they call themselves Christians they are not and will lose out on the Kingdom of Heaven because they are deluded by this evil force that has a hold of them .
If we put our trust in the things of the world or want to live in our sins that God's Son Jesus Christ paid for with His blood,then where was the true repentance to begin with in the first place.
Your friend Fundamentalist is being convicted by the Holy Spirit,but he is not willing to change his ways as he wants to live in darkness being caught up by the evils of the world. In him doing this he has taken his focus off of God and thereby following his own god if you want to call it and it is a dangerous plight. I pray that he will make amends and get back on the right path.
If someone comes to the Lord for salvation and reverts back to their sinful repetitive ways they can't gain salvation because it wasn't a true repentance to begin with in their initial quest for the Lord.
Originally Posted by HotinAZ Sometimes I wonder if it really is the world that rejects the Christ, or just rejects the Christian version of it.
I have heard so many times that people, who are not Christians, yet have studied it, say that they love our Jesus Christ, and His message. They can also understand why He died for the sins of the world.
But having seen what the religion of Christianity has done to the world in the last 1900+ years,,,they are turned off by it. And if it wasn't for the conduct of those who claim to follow Him, they would follow Him. The most famous was Gandhi.
I know this is not how you are, as you have a great heart.
I was just responding as to why it seems the world rejects Christ. I think it isn't Christ they are rejecting,,,but rather it is us.
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Originally Posted by HotinAZ
Nothing you have said changes from what I said. Notice who Jesus is talking to. His followers, who would later become the Apostles, or leaders of the newly formed Church.
If we ARE hated by the world, which is kosmos in Greek, which is their world "order", then we are not talking about the meek, the poor, the humble, the peacemakers, the lowly,,,,we are talking about the opposite of those traits.
But there are a lot of Christians who claim the title, while serving other worldly masters. In which case, we "see" the killings, the persecutions, the punishments, and the enslavement. All the while, they call themselves Christians. This is what I am referring to.
It is hard speaking English after understanding the Greek because the words are so interchangable both in Greek and English.
The "world" hates Christians because the "world" is in control with authority. Few Christians recognize only Jesus Christ as King, thereby stripping them of authority and submission. This makes them an enemy of this "world".
People who love their sin and the power sin brings also hate some Christians, because their hearts are convicting them of their sin. This is the Spirit at work, and they battle on because they love darkness rather than Light.
People who do not love their sin, and seek to walk in the Light do not hate Christians, although they might not care for the religion of Christianity, based upon what they see Christians doing to each other, and others who do not believe as they do.
It is hard speaking English after understanding the Greek because the words are so interchangable both in Greek and English.
The "world" hates Christians because the "world" is in control with authority. Few Christians recognize only Jesus Christ as King, thereby stripping them of authority and submission. This makes them an enemy of this "world".
People who love their sin and the power sin brings also hate some Christians, because their hearts are convicting them of their sin. This is the Spirit at work, and they battle on because they love darkness rather than Light.
People who do not love their sin, and seek to walk in the Light do not hate Christians, although they might not care for the religion of Christianity, based upon what they see Christians doing to each other, and others who do not believe as they do.
Sometimes I wonder if it really is the world that rejects the Christ, or just rejects the Christian version of it.
I have heard so many times that people, who are not Christians, yet have studied it, say that they love our Jesus Christ, and His message. They can also understand why He died for the sins of the world.
But having seen what the religion of Christianity has done to the world in the last 1900+ years,,,they are turned off by it. And if it wasn't for the conduct of those who claim to follow Him, they would follow Him. The most famous was Gandhi.
I know this is not how you are, as you have a great heart.
I was just responding as to why it seems the world rejects Christ. I think it isn't Christ they are rejecting,,,but rather it is us.
Nope they are using people as an "excuse" because they don't want to face themselves or their own sinfulness. Plain and simply as that.
When you or anyone else responds to me (Raelyn28) you are not talking to a girl who was raised in a home where my room was filled with unicorns, puppy dogs and horsies. In other words I have been to hell and back. I spent the first 22-years of my life running from everything because I was in pain. I had an extremely abusive childhood that led me down an ugly path in search for freedom and love. I tried almost everything in a quest to find the truth and relief from my pain.
When I finally quit running from my pain and my sin (my sin was the result or a camoflage of my pain) faced it, took it to the cross asking Jesus to forgive me...then I truly was set free. Everything wasn't immediately perfect but I KNEW that I had found Truth and the burden of my guilt, shame and sin was gone.. Praise God and hallieluia!!!
I used to get attitudes about Christians, make excuses...saying things like "well if that is Christianity then I want no part of it" but truthfully it was an excuse. We will all have to stand before God not other people.
If everyone around me spits in my face and does wrong I still will believe in Jesus because my salvation and relationship are about Him and I and nothing else/nobody else... We came into the world with nothing we will leave with nothing but we will stand before Christ sooner or later.... It is my prayer that all of us would find him sooner..
Nope they are using people as an "excuse" because they don't want to face themselves or their own sinfulness. Plain and simply as that.
When you or anyone else responds to me (Raelyn28) you are not talking to a girl who was raised in a home where my room was filled with unicorns, puppy dogs and horsies. In other words I have been to hell and back. I spent the first 22-years of my life running from everything because I was in pain. I had an extremely abusive childhood that led me down an ugly path in search for freedom and love. I tried almost everything in a quest to find the truth and relief from my pain.
When I finally quit running from my pain and my sin (my sin was the result or a camoflage of my pain) faced it, took it to the cross asking Jesus to forgive me...then I truly was set free. Everything wasn't immediately perfect but I KNEW that I had found Truth and the burden of my guilt, shame and sin was gone.. Praise God and hallieluia!!!
I used to get attitudes about Christians, make excuses...saying things like "well if that is Christianity then I want no part of it" but truthfully it was an excuse. We will all have to stand before God not other people.
If everyone around me spits in my face and does wrong I still will believe in Jesus because my salvation and relationship are about Him and I and nothing else/nobody else... We came into the world with nothing we will leave with nothing but we will stand before Christ sooner or later.... It is my prayer that all of us would find him sooner..
Have a nice day.
That was a testimony not unlike my own. I am not talking of those of us who have been to hell and back. I am talking about those who do not know much about the religion of Christianity, in the case you are presenting. You heard about Christianity, probably from an early age.
You are right about excuses though. I made enough of them myself, even to the point of atheism. I could not wrap my mind around who and what God or His Son was, and instead i fought against it. But, while fighting against it, God drew me close, then closer, then BAM!! I was knocked out spiritually. It was an experience that I haven't told too often. But that was God's doing, not mine. That was His love for me, not my love for Him.
We learn, and while learning, we grow. But the love He gave to me, He gave it straight to the inside,,,way deep down. It was and is pure. Holy. He forgave me for my transgressions, both against Him and my fellow brothers and sisters. It was a lot of forgiving, for I was evil as evil can be.
But it was the beginning. The journey still lay ahead of me. For years I did not venture down the path of His Way. I stayed on my own path. But He called, and called. One day, He gave me a nugget. He told me the Word is a giant maze, and that only He can guide me through it. It would take much time, and patience. It would journey through this doctrine, and that doctrine. I had to "see" them. If it was a lie, I was finally convicted of it. If it was the Truth, I took it and cherished it.
So, I do not knock those who are on the same journey. In fact I applaud it, although it doesn't need applauding.
What I do do, is refute those who claiim to have all Truth IN judgment, because no man has the Truth completely. If they do, their journey is over. We learn from one another, while we love one another. My nuggets might not be the same as your nuggets, so we learn from each other. Right?
So be blessed, and sorry if I offended. Forgive me.
That was a testimony not unlike my own. I am not talking of those of us who have been to hell and back. I am talking about those who do not know much about the religion of Christianity, in the case you are presenting. You heard about Christianity, probably from an early age.
You are right about excuses though. I made enough of them myself, even to the point of atheism. I could not wrap my mind around who and what God or His Son was, and instead i fought against it. But, while fighting against it, God drew me close, then closer, then BAM!! I was knocked out spiritually. It was an experience that I haven't told too often. But that was God's doing, not mine. That was His love for me, not my love for Him.
We learn, and while learning, we grow. But the love He gave to me, He gave it straight to the inside,,,way deep down. It was and is pure. Holy. He forgave me for my transgressions, both against Him and my fellow brothers and sisters. It was a lot of forgiving, for I was evil as evil can be.
But it was the beginning. The journey still lay ahead of me. For years I did not venture down the path of His Way. I stayed on my own path. But He called, and called. One day, He gave me a nugget. He told me the Word is a giant maze, and that only He can guide me through it. It would take much time, and patience. It would journey through this doctrine, and that doctrine. I had to "see" them. If it was a lie, I was finally convicted of it. If it was the Truth, I took it and cherished it.
So, I do not knock those who are on the same journey. In fact I applaud it, although it doesn't need applauding.
What I do do, is refute those who claiim to have all Truth IN judgment, because no man has the Truth completely. If they do, their journey is over. We learn from one another, while we love one another. My nuggets might not be the same as your nuggets, so we learn from each other. Right?
So be blessed, and sorry if I offended. Forgive me.
Thankyou for your heartfelt testimony. I felt your heart and love in it. I wasn't offended but I just believe that many people (not intended at you) make excuses. My own family members live day in and day out making excuses, running, blaming everyone else for their choices and lot in life. I have heard it for many years and have pondered often with the Lord why they do that. So I know that people use excuses.
One thing that I did leave out. I do believe Jesus calls us to be the light. Many people are drawn to Christianity by other people as I was. I wasn't taught it at a young age either. I witnessed Christ through others..it was His Love (His Light) that was in their heart that I saw.. We need to be that light and sometimes we are sometimes we aren't. We are human and we fall short...but someone is always watching and always needing to see that light in their darkness...
I am praying that those that have the "true light" will shine and not hid their light under a lampshade. We may be the only light that this dark world will see...
Luke 11:33-34
33 “No one lights a lamp and then hides it or puts it under a basket.[a] Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where its light can be seen by all who enter the house.
34 “Your eye is a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is good, your whole body is filled with light. But when it is bad, your body is filled with darkness.
I would say, don't give up on your friend. At the very least we can pray for him. Since the Apostles left the world, the churches over time, began misunderstanding some of the teachings of CHRIST. They still struggle today to fully understand the New Testament. Even when the Apostles were here, Christians struggled to understand. And even the Apostles were still learning over time. GOD looks at the heart. The attitude of the heart is very important. Grace has to be understood by individuals who are enlightened by the SPIRIT. Otherwise it seems parodoxal at best. I strongly believe your friend needs help and lots of intercessory prayer. May the grace of GOD be richly administered to him! Let's all say Amen and believe!
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