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Oh and by the way, no where in the bible does it say that Judas is in hell
Matthew 26:24: "The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
Obviously Christ knew that Judas faced a horrible fate, since he said that nonexistence would have been preferable. Why would he say such a thing if he had not been headed for eternal hell? What was the horrible fate--worse than annihilation--that Christ had in mind?
You then do not believe in hell or eternal punishment???
Yes I do, but I don't believe all that many people will be going there. The scriptures mention only one sin which cannot be forgiven, either now or in the world to come. That sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. We could probably get into a discussion as to what blasphemy against the Holy Ghost means, because we probably don't agree on that either. Based on my understanding of what it means, I don't think there are all that many people who have lived who are even in a position of having committed it. It requires denying Jesus Christ in the face of absolute proof that He is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. For instance, I believe that Peter, James, and John, who were with Christ at the Transfiguration were in a position to have been able to commit blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. (They didn't, of course, but that's the kind of knowledge I believe would be required before a person could commit the "unforgivable sin.") At any rate, I believe that it is a sin which is so serious that those who commit it will spend eternity totally removed from God's presence, in outer darkess and torment. That would truly be Hell.
Yes I do. I believe that He was God before His birth in Bethlehem, that He was God during His mortal life, that He is God today, and that He will be God forever. What I don't believe is that He is God the Father. I believe He sits on the right hand of His Father in Heaven today, and I don't know how one person has ever managed to sit on his own right hand side. In short, I am not a Trinitarian. I believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "one" but I don't interpret that as being part of a single substance.
That's great. However, how do you interpret this?
Zech 10:10-11 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst, says the LORD. 11 "Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.
God sent Himself. Christ was God manifested in the Flesh. God, for the love of His people, manifested Himself into three seperate beings, The Father, and The Son and the Holy Spirit, which are all one in the same. He is three, which is in one, God. The concept of the trinity is all over the scriptures, just as many doctrines are, but are never named what have been named by men. I believe in the Trinity completely.
Zech 10:10-11 10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion! For behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst, says the LORD. 11 "Many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and they shall become My people. And I will dwell in your midst. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you.
God sent Himself.
If you mean God the Father sent Himself, I disagree.
Quote:
Christ was God manifested in the Flesh. God, for the love of His people, manifested Himself into three seperate beings, The Father, and The Son and the Holy Spirit, which are all one in the same. He is three, which is in one, God. The concept of the trinity is all over the scriptures, just as many doctrines are, but are never named what have been named by men. I believe in the Trinity completely.
If you believe that Christ was God the Father manifest in the flesh, I disagree. Seriously, I wouldn't mind debating the Trinity with you, but I would much prefer that it not be on this thread.
Sure, I believe that God the Father sent God the Son. I believe in the Godhead completely. But a discussion on the Trinity verses the Godhead is going to take us way, way off topic, wouldn't you agree? I'd be happy to debate it it with you, but would really prefer that it not be on this thread.
You are right. Let's stay on topic. Are you a Universalist? I apologize if I haven't read much of your posts.
You are right. Let's stay on topic. Are you a Universalist? I apologize if I haven't read much of your posts.
I don't consider myself to be a universalist in the strict sense of the word, but my beliefs are close enough to universalism that you would probably consider me one.
I don't consider myself to be a universalist in the strict sense of the word, but my beliefs are close enough to universalism that you would probably consider me one.
Do you believe in a place that is eternally separate from God?
Sorry, you could not be more incorrect. It means eternal or everlasting, without end. Three reliable sources tell me this: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, The Student's Complete Vocabulary Guide to the Greek New Testament, and Basics of Biblical Greek (William D. Mounce).
For me, it makes more sense to trust the Septuagint translators over those sources. 70 very reliable sources.
Here the saints rebuild and raise up aionion wastes which are the consequences of sin.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. 4 And they shall build the old [aionion] wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Here God promises to redeem His people from their "everlasting contempt"
Isaiah 54:4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth [aionion contempt], and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
It's the exact same two Greek words as here
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And there are other examples in the Septuagint where aionion can not mean "everlasting".
The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive. This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time. A common phrase in the Hebrew is "l'olam va'ed" and is usually translated as "forever and ever" but in the Hebrew it means "to the distant horizon and again" meaning "a very distant time and even further" and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time.
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