Scriptures that proved to me Universal Salvation is true (paradise, converting, Calvinists)
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One day with God is as one thousand years with man. Paul and the other disciples thought that the return of Christ and the resurrection were eminent according to man at their own time ... According to god it was, and i believe it is closer than ever now. There are many things that have not yet occurred and the full preterist hermeneutic in my opinion is less than flimsy in the way it attempts to explains that all things concerning prophecy and Gods purpose in creation has occurred already in the past.
Our salvation is not complete even as the salvation of the apostles was not yet complete in the new testament. Now we wait through faith on the hope of righteousness to come(Gal 5:5), just as they did then. Christ has already accomplished the saving work, but until death and every work of the devil is destroyed throughout all things, there is yet many things to be accomplished.
Honestly Sciotamicks, if you version of Christianity and your prphetic hermeneutic had been the way things were explained to me all my life i imagine i probably wouldn't be christian right now. In my opinion your hermeneutic(full preterism) makes God out to be a liar and a flake. Much like i believe ET makes him out to be a monster and a despot ...
Selah ...
So..you said our salvation is not complete. Thank you for clarifying that.
You are wrong, it is complete. You, my friend, make out Jesus Christ and all the apostles to be liars, not me. I make them out to be true and honest, as their reeward was recieved in the time frame that they has expected.
The view you present is the "already/but not yet" view, and is eisegectical. Your interpretation of imminent is also flawed greatly.
Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
At hand is rooted in ἐγγύς, which is denoted as near, next coming up shortly. Not thousands of years into the future.
Secondly, if Biblical Fulfilled eschatology is true, and you lost your faith, well, Ironmaw, I would have to say, ye have little faith if any, and if that a Christian at all. It brings to question whether you are truly saved or not, and whether you can withstand the changes in the church's view on the end times, or any doctrine for that matter that is consistently and scripturally sound. What Full Preterism brings is duty, service and the satisafaction in all things that have already been accomplished.
The question is:
What are you going to do about it if it is true?
You know what I am doing about it. I am healing the nations, what I was called to do in Rev 21, from the consistent fallcay of futurism that has plagued our civilization for centuries, which has brought strife, war, persecution, false doctrine, and a break in the church at large, not to mention Islam, a complete misreading of the OT promises and prophecies.
Christ isn't comiong back. He already did. And if you think that will bring no hope to you, then you have no idea what Christian hope really is. What this really means is that those who take on this view, of losing hope in Christ's coming, is that they were neglecting the very work that Christ asked you to do, and just wainting for his return, hiding and hoping.
Spread the gospel. Time is not running out. The elements already burned up with fervent heat. We already have our New Heaven and Earth. We already are all in all with Christ, forever.
Eternal torment is another matter entirely, but let me say this, your exegesis of the flipside to eternal torment is far from being correct, as I have corrected before, and will do so again.
Can you provide anything to the readers here what "salvation post mortem" is scripturally, other than what you have already presented that has been corrected time and time again?
So..you said our salvation is not complete. Thank you for clarifying that.
You are wrong, it is complete. You, my friend, make out Jesus Christ and all the apostles to be liars, not me. I make them out to be true and honest, as their reeward was recieved in the time frame that they has expected.
The view you present is the "already/but not yet" view, and is eisegectical. Your interpretation of imminent is also flawed greatly.
Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
At hand is rooted in ἐγγύς, which is denoted as near, next coming up shortly. Not thousands of years into the future.
Secondly, if Biblical Fulfilled eschatology is true, and you lost your faith, well, Ironmaw, I would have to say, ye have little faith if any, and if that a Christian at all. It brings to question whether you are truly saved or not, and whether you can withstand the changes in the church's view on the end times, or any doctrine for that matter that is consistently and scripturally sound. What Full Preterism brings is duty, service and the satisafaction in all things that have already been accomplished.
The question is:
What are you going to do about it if it is true?
You know what I am doing about it. I am healing the nations, what I was called to do in Rev 21, from the consistent fallcay of futurism that has plagued our civilization for centuries, which has brought strife, war, persecution, false doctrine, and a break in the church at large, not to mention Islam, a complete misreading of the OT promises and prophecies.
Christ isn't comiong back. He already did. And if you think that will bring no hope to you, then you have no idea what Christian hope really is. What this really means is that those who take on this view, of losing hope in Christ's coming, is that they were neglecting the very work that Christ asked you to do, and just wainting for his return, hiding and hoping.
Spread the gospel. Time is not running out. The elements already burned up with fervent heat. We already have our New Heaven and Earth. We already are all in all with Christ, forever.
Eternal torment is another matter entirely, but let me say this, your exegesis of the flipside to eternal torment is far from being correct, as I have corrected before, and will do so again.
Can you provide anything to the readers here what "salvation post mortem" is scripturally, other than what you have already presented that has been corrected time and time again?
Sciotamicks, say what ever you will ... You do not scare me, you do not cause me to waver in my faith. You amuse be at best, and irritate me at worst ... I am used to it however. You keep correcting what you believe to be false, and claiming that Christ will not come back, and that there is not literal resurrection of the dead, and that God will not accomplish his desire to save all, and that the power of sin is greater than the power of the blood of Christ, and that the will of mankind is greater than the will of God, and that death and evil will exist for ever, and whatever your heart desires to be true. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks after all. I believe you are wrong now even more than when I first began discussing these things with you.
We will know the truth for certain when all things are said and done.
Sciotamicks, say what ever you will ... You do not scare me, you do not cause me to waver in my faith. You amuse be at best, and irritate me at worst ... I am used to it however. You keep correcting what you believe to be false, and claiming that Christ will not come back, and that there is not literal resurrection of the dead, and that God will not accomplish his desire to save all, and that the power of sin is greater than the power of the blood of Christ, and that the will of mankind is greater than the will of God, and that death and evil will exist for ever, and whatever your heart desires to be true. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks after all. I believe you are wrong now even more than when I first began discussing these things with you.
We will know the truth for certain when all things are said and done.
God bless ...
I am not trying to scare, but give you a new hope, a new beginning to believe that what was promised is already here. You have that, but you just don;t know it yet. I too, was afraid of losing my hope, but when I dove face first when I was asked to by God, I received a new hope, a new faith in Christ. A hope that was real, that I could say, YES! I have that now! I am blessed!
Like I asked you in another thread, if sin and death are defeated for all mankind, why are there still sinners in the New Heaven and Earth?
I am not trying to scare, but give you a new hope, a new beginning to believe that what was promised is already here. You have that, but you just don;t know it yet. I too, was afraid of losing my hope, but when I dove face first when I was asked to by God, I received a new hope, a new faith in Christ. A hope that was real, that I could say, YES! I have that now! I am blessed!
Like I asked you in another thread, if sin and death are defeated for all mankind, why are there still sinners in the New Heaven and Earth?
Explain that.
I have all the hope i need, and that is that God will save all his creation, and destroy all evil(sin, death and all the works of the devil) completely. What you offer, that only a few will be saved and that evil(sin, death and all the works of the devil) will exist forever, pales in comparison. Thanks but no thanks ...
I have all the hope i need, and that is that God will save all his creation, and destroy all evil(sin, death and all the works of the devil) completely. What you offer, that only a few will be saved and that evil will exist forever, pales in comparison. Thanks but no thanks ...
So you choose not to explain why there are sinners in the New Heaven and Earth?
So you choose not to explain why there are sinners in the New Heaven and Earth?
The prophecy doesn't say that there will be sinners in the new heavens and earth, it says that no sinner will enter therein. All people will have been saved either by faith now or by the fiery judgments of God to come.
The prophecy doesn't say that there will be sinners in the new heavens and earth, it says that no sinner will enter therein. All people will have been saved either by faith now or by the fiery judgments of God to come.
Again, the prophecy says they exist, so therefore outside the City, which exists at that time, has sinners, so they exist, in a world where the New Heaven and Earth exists, surrounded by sinners.
You are jumping through hoops again with a consistent exercise of eisegesis. Stick to the text and context.
In the city there is no more sin and death, but around the city there is, so not all are saved.
And where does the scripture say the fire judgements of God are coming to those outside of the city? There is none. Eisegesis again.
They suffer the second death. There is no reversal of that death. Just that they suffer it.
Again, the prophecy says they exist, so therefore outside the City, which exists at that time, has sinners, so they exist, in a world where the New Heaven and Earth exists, surrounded by sinners.
You are jumping through hoops again with a consistent exercise of eisegesis. Stick to the text and context.
In the city there is no more sin and death, but around the city there is, so not all are saved.
And where does the scripture say the fire judgements of God are coming to those outside of the city? There is none. Eisegesis again.
They suffer the second death. There is no reversal of that death. Just that they suffer it.
I don't think you guys realize that the second death comes to all mankind.
Rev. 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
So the second death is not exclusive to sinners but to all.. remember what Christ said when washing the disciples feet:
John 13:30 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you."
So there is a cleansing that must be done. I believe an individual dies and is cleansed by the word of God.. Therein lies the second death. For some this is an uncomfortable process, for others it is as if washing your feet.
The resurrection can only take place after death, right? so what is the argument?
I know Ironmaw believes that there will be some that don't die but will be resurrected but that is not exactly what scripture states:
1 Cor. 15:22 "...in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
WE will be changed. Them, the ones surrounding the speaker. It was said that Paul and the others had not received salvation as of yet and that is correct, they only hoped for salvation. Yet the change comes as Christ returns, right?
The change does not necessarily come with death though. The change is linked to the culmination of the new covenant, right? I would think so. The new covenant devoid of animal sacrifices began in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. Wouldn't you agree?
I don't think you guys realize that the second death comes to all mankind.
It does without Christ.
Quote:
Rev. 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
So the second death is not exclusive to sinners but to all.. remember what Christ said when washing the disciples feet:
It is inclusive to only those that deny Christ. That is what the text says. They are outside the city.
Quote:
John 13:30 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you."
He's talking about Judas here. You're out of context.
Quote:
The resurrection can only take place after death, right? so what is the argument?
No! The resurection takes place at the moment of salvation. If you don't believe this then you are not a Full Preterist.
Quote:
1 Cor. 15:22 "...in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
WE will be changed. Them, the ones surrounding the speaker. It was said that Paul and the others had not received salvation as of yet and that is correct, they only hoped for salvation. Yet the change comes as Christ returns, right?
Yes. The body, was changed then, at the Parousia, and all mankind IN CHRIST, were given what no one ever had before. An incorruptble body, that would never die. That was the expectation, and that is what was recieved, all those dead, and those alive, righteous saints prior to, and those in Christ post calvary!
Quote:
The change does not necessarily come with death though. The change is linked to the culmination of the new covenant, right? I would think so. The new covenant devoid of animal sacrifices began in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem. Wouldn't you agree?
The change is now, from what was consummated then. I have the incorruptible body now. When this corruptible body of mine is done, my body, that I already have, will continue to live, forever.
::Sigh:: All those "born again" . . . or now like sciotamicks . . . "resurrected" . . please explain why you cannot John 3:8 (King James Version)
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
You all seem a bit solid and physical to be like the wind!!! . . . until you are dead and THEN reborn as Spirit.
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