The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment (LONG) (Jewish, bless, Greek, Yahweh)

[TwoWitnesses]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It is easy to discern satanic thinking. If there is hate, fear-mongering, or condemnation . . . it is anti-Christ. If it is love as described in 1 Cor 13 it is Christian. The doctrine of Eternal Punishment is satanic . . . not Christian. Such evil must always be explained or excused using the "precepts and doctrines of men" about God's so-called justice. Nothing Christian requires any excuses or so-called explanations. 1 Cor 13 is clear and unambiguous . . . as was Christ's life and death.

And there you have it.

[bobwtodd]

The only proof of an eternal hell punishment is in the corrupted texts of our Bibles since the fourth century. Google K7VHQ and get a clue. ROBERT WHEELER TODD

[bobwtodd]

Google K7VHQ and get a clue. I am so sick of those who tout the falsehood of eternal hell who fail to do their own research and learn the purpose of God's EONIAN plan.

[TwoWitnesses]

1 Peter 3:19 ?

And I don't think you can say that Jesus was preaching to "fallen angels" in Hell...because Jesus was sent to redeem the souls of men, not angels. Fallen angels can't be saved, if I'm not mistaken. So therefore, he was preaching to the souls of people who were trapped there.

[Michael Way]

Originally Posted by bobwtodd

The only proof of an eternal hell punishment is in the corrupted texts of our Bibles since the fourth century. Google K7VHQ and get a clue. ROBERT WHEELER TODD

That claim is easily proven to be false. You claim that before the fourth century there was nothing in the Bible about eternal punishment.

However, in approximately 170-175 A.D., Tatian composed the first known harmony of the four gospels - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The manuscript copies he used were probably in existence sometime during the first half of the 2nd century. The following is from Matthew 25:41-46.

Tatian's Diatessaron [A harmony of the four gospels] [170-175 A.D.] ... Depart from me, ye cursed, 54 into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his hosts: I hungered, and ye fed me not; and I thirsted, and ye did not give me to drink; and I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; and I was naked, and ye clothed me not; and I was sick, and im- prisoned, and ye visited me not. Then shall those also answer and say, Our Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or naked, or a stranger, or sick, or im- prisoned, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, When ye did it not unto one of these little ones, ye did it not unto me also. And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life. [SECTION XLIII] [Bolding mine] Diatessaron

Let's look at what Justin Martyr and Irenaeus of Lyons, both of whom lived in the 2nd century, wrote concerning eternal (or everlasting) punishment.

Justin Martyr in the middle of the 2nd century wrote his 'First Apology'. In it he says that 'we' hold the view of everlasting punishment.

Justin Martyr [THE FIRST APOLOGY] [150-160 A.D.] ... And more than all other men are we your helpers and allies in promoting peace, seeing that we hold this view, that it is alike impossible for the wicked, the covetous, the conspirator, and for the virtuous, to escape the notice of God, and that each man goes to everlasting punishment or salvation according to the value of his actions. For if all men knew this, no one would choose wickedness even for a little, knowing that he goes to the everlasting punishment of fire; but would by all means restrain himself, and adorn himself with virtue, that he might obtain the good gifts of God, and escape the punishments. [THE FIRST APOLOGY OF JUSTIN; CHAPTER VIII -- CHRISTIANS CONFESS THEIR FAITH IN GOD] [Bolding mine] Saint Justin Martyr: First Apology (Roberts-Donaldson)


In approximately 175-185 A.D. Irenaeus of Lyons wrote 'Against Heresies'.

In Against Heresies Book 3, Chapter IV, Irenaeus wrote the following.

Chapter IV.—The truth is to be found nowhere else but in the Catholic Church, the sole depository of apostolical doctrine. Heresies are of recent formation, and cannot trace their origin up to the apostles.

1. Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the 417 water of life.3318 For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account are we bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the thing pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question3319 among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?

2. To which course many nations of those barbarians who believe in Christ do assent, having salvation written in their hearts by the Spirit, without paper or ink, and, carefully preserving the ancient tradition,3320 believing in one God, the Creator of heaven and earth, and all things therein, by means of Christ Jesus, the Son of God; who, because of His surpassing love towards His creation, condescended to be born of the virgin, He Himself uniting man through Himself to God, and having suffered under Pontius Pilate, and rising again, and having been received up in splendour, shall come in glory, the Saviour of those who are saved, and the Judge of those who are judged, and sending into eternal fire those who transform the truth, and despise His Father and His advent. Those who, in the absence of written documents,3321 have believed this faith, are barbarians, so far as regards our language; but as regards doctrine, manner, and tenor of life, they are, because of faith, very wise indeed; and they do please God, ordering their conversation in all righteousness, chastity, and wisdom. If any one were to preach to these men the inventions of the heretics, speaking to them in their own language, they would at once stop their ears, and flee as far off as possible, not enduring even to listen to the blasphemous address. Thus, by means of that ancient tradition of the apostles, they do not suffer their mind to conceive anything of the [doctrines suggested by the] portentous language of these teachers, among whom neither Church nor doctrine has ever been established. [Bolding mine] ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

In Against Heresies, Book I Chapter X, Irenaeus wrote...

Chapter X.—Unity of the faith of the Church throughout the whole world.

1. The Church, though dispersed through our the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: [She believes] in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations2786of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His [future] manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father “to gather all things in one,”2787 and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, “every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess”2788 to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send “spiritual wickednesses,”2789 and 331 the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory. [/Bolding mine] ANF01. The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

According to Irenaeus, the teaching of everlasting fire into which both the unrighteous of mankind and the angels who transgressed are sent was received from the apostles and from their disciples. This agrees with Matthew 25:41,46.

Matthew 25:41 Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46] "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

As shown above, the claim that the mention of eternal punishment was the result of corruption of the Bible since the 4th century is completely without merit.

[TwoWitnesses]

A masterpiece.

Yeah, I think the key to interpreting the use of what seems to be the word "eternal" may have to do with the aeons and such.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It is easy to discern satanic thinking. If there is hate, fear-mongering, or condemnation . . . it is anti-Christ. If it is love as described in 1 Cor 13 it is Christian. The doctrine of Eternal Punishment is satanic . . . not Christian. Such evil must always be explained or excused using the "precepts and doctrines of men" about God's so-called justice. Nothing Christian requires any excuses or so-called explanations. 1 Cor 13 is clear and unambiguous . . . as was Christ's life and death.

I agree Mystic,and as a former believer in it, I acknowledge my mind had to be corrupted to believe such a thing. Punishment crazed Christianity completely misunderstands the purpose of punishment and what it is by its literal take upon the scriptures.

God punishes and chastises by his word

and out of his mouth doth proceed a sharp sword, that with it he may smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, and he doth tread the press of the wine of the wrath and the anger of God the Almighty.

The nations are all that comes out of the abundance of our hearts that is not of the kingdom of God.

And then the lawless one(the old man) will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth( the living word of God) and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

When Salvation comes to the house of God(know you not you are the Temple of God?),the lawless one is overthrown.
I know it is not what they tell you it means in church,well..................go and find one that does.

[.sparrow.]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It is easy to discern satanic thinking. If there is hate, fear-mongering, or condemnation . . . it is anti-Christ. If it is love as described in 1 Cor 13 it is Christian. The doctrine of Eternal Punishment is satanic . . . not Christian. Such evil must always be explained or excused using the "precepts and doctrines of men" about God's so-called justice. Nothing Christian requires any excuses or so-called explanations. 1 Cor 13 is clear and unambiguous . . . as was Christ's life and death.

TRUTH!

And yay! I can finally rep you.

[Matthew 4:4]

Originally Posted by TwoWitnesses

1 Peter 3:19 ?
And I don't think you can say that Jesus was preaching to "fallen angels" in Hell...because Jesus was sent to redeem the souls of men, not angels. Fallen angels can't be saved, if I'm not mistaken. So therefore, he was preaching to the souls of people who were trapped there.

Right, those fallen angels were not in hell, just like Satan was never in biblical hell, but Jesus was.- Acts 2 vs 27,31
Jude verse 6 has the fallen angels in everlasting chains under darkness [ tartarus ].
Not the tartarus of mythology, but in dense spiritual darkness. 2nd Peter 2 v 4 the word 'hell' KJV Bible is not the word 'sheol' or 'hades/haides' used there but the word 'tartao'o [ tartarus ].
By Jesus appearing to the fallen angels [demons ] made their destruction [ Jude verse 5 B ] a sure thing. As the fires of Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed - Luke 17 v 29.

[Robert M Prince]

Go to city-data forum -bible talk -social-group to read an article today about keeping the spirit of the law.