The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment (LONG) (Buddhism, protestant, Catholicism, morals)
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Matthew 25:41 says that God created hell for Satan and his fallen angels (demons). It also says that those who are cursed (not of God) will also be sent there.
Isaiah 59:2 says that our sin separates us from God.
Romans 3:23 says that everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory of God.
John 3:16 says that God's will is that none should perish so He sent Jesus as a sacrifice to bridge that gap. Those who call upon the name of the Lord are the sons/daughters of God.
Matthew 3:7, "You brood of vipers (sons of hell), who warned you to flee the wrath that is to come." Rejecting Jesus and refusing to repent is what makes a person a son/daughter of hell and, thus, children of their father, the devil.
In John 8:44 and 47 Jesus says, "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.""He who is of God hears God's words; therefore, you do not hear because you are not of God."
Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter by the narrow gate (Jesus); for broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
John 3:36, [i]"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
Romans 1:18-21, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."
Revelation 20:15,"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."
Not everyone will be in heaven with Jesus. If there was no hell and God was just a doting grandfather who forgives everyone anyway and all end up in heaven, then why did God send send His Son as a sacrifice and hinge salvation upon believing and accepting Him?
In short. Hell was created for Satan and his children. Those who aren't children of God are children of the devil. Every person will go to live with their father, whichever of the two they have chosen.
God's final wrath is coming (Revelation 19:11-21). When it does, no one will be without excuse and will have made their choice to follow God or to follow Satan. The choice of who we follow is being made right now.
That's how blatant and crystal clear the Bible is.
Last edited by plain and simple; 06-09-2013 at 07:13 PM..
where is the reference to the bolded in the scriptures you are quoting ?. You're going nowhere until God as competed a work in you, and this will involve the fire you believe is reserved for the unbeliever.
OK - that's what I get for using your terms - because I did not use "heaven" in my statement.
Those who believe in Christ have eternal life and will be in God's presence.
John 3:16, 1 John 5:11, John 1:12, etc.
Those who do not believe will receive God's wrath.
John 3:36, Matt. 25:46, 2 Thess. 1:9-10, 1 John 5:12, John 8:24, etc.
John 8:21 - Then He said again to them, "I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come."
The evil in the world has long been a stumbling block for a lot of people. And that's understandable. However, the answer lies in looking beyond the surface of the question, "Why does God allow evil?"
We have to remember that people are part of that equation. Humans are born into a fallen and depraved nature. They also have the free will to make choices. Choices have consequences. If people didn't have that free will, we would all be robots and forced to act and think in specific ways. God doesn't want a relationship with us that way; not out of obligation or force. If we had the ability to create a race of people who lived in an aquarium (for example) and placed the knowledge of us as their creator inside them, would it mean very much if they were programmed to love you and act certain ways? Of course not. It would mean so much more if they CHOSE to love you, wouldn't it?
So, what if God intervened in cases of evil to not allow them to happen? Sounds great on the surface, right? But then you have to answer the question: "To what degree of evil should God intervene in?" What if something YOU wanted to do was interfered with? If we want God to intervene with murder and rape, how about idolatry? Lies? Sin isn't registered on a sliding scale. All sin is offensive to God and comes between us and Him. All sin hurts others.
An unsaved person whose worst sin is that of gossip is just as unsaved as a nonbeliever who is a serial killer. If God were to intervene and prevent evil, He would have to remove us. Plus, if God were to prevent all the negative consequences of our actions, would we really have free will?
God allows evil, yes. But He also restrains it. It helps to remember that one day God will eradicate evil. But now He is patiently waiting so that more will turn to Him and be saved.
we must always remember that the god of this world the devil is a parasite always counterfiting truth with his lies. thats why we need to be experts on the genuine verses the counterfit. God is all good the devil all evil,you cant have good without evil as a parasite, Remember the devil has endless suggestions,and snares to talk people out of gods word and his promises. good post by the way.
OK - that's what I get for using your terms - because I did not use "heaven" in my statement.
Those who believe in Christ have eternal life and will be in God's presence.
John 3:16, 1 John 5:11, John 1:12, etc.
Those who do not believe will receive God's wrath.
John 3:36, Matt. 25:46, 2 Thess. 1:9-10, 1 John 5:12, John 8:24, etc.
You said you agreed that believing in Jesus makes you clean for "heaven".
You are reading heaven and eternal hell into these scriptures. Quote ONE verse that states Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell.
If eternal hell is real like the fundamentalist would have us believe, and Jesus came to save us fom it,why is it that when you read of the gospel being preached in the book of Acts it is not there to be seen ?, where is it in the writings of Paul ?.
If you took eternal hell out of modern Christianity, their churches would empty quicker than you could say Ichabod.
Matthew 25 v 41 does Not say hell is created for Satan but that 'everlasting fire' is.
The words sheol nor hades/ haides is not used in that verse.
Nor is the word Gehenna used. Gehenna is often translated in the KJV Bible as hellfire, but Gehenna was just a garbage pit where things were destroyed not kept burning forever.
The definition of the lake of fire is 'second death' according to Rev. 20 vs 13,14.
Satan ends up in that symbolic fire [ second death ] according to Rev. 21 v 8.
Jesus destroys Satan [ Hebrews 2 v 14 B ]
And since Satan ends up in 'second death' then 'second death' is a fitting term for: destruction.
All the wicked will be destroyed forever. - Psalm 92 v 7
Jesus did not spend eternity in the Bible's hell [ sheol], but God resurrected Jesus out of hell.- Acts 2 vs 27,31,32; 3 v 15; 13 vs 30,37
God resurrected Jesus out of death's sleeping state.- Psalms 6 v 5; 13 v 3; 115 v 17; 146 v 4; Ecc. 9 v 5; Daniel 12 vs 2,13; John 11 vs 11-4
Jesus now has the keys to unlock the Bible's hell [ gravedom ] according to Rev. 1 v 18.
Isn't everyone in the Bible's hell to be 'delivered up ' out of hell [ Rev. 20 vs 13,14 ], then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into 'second death'.
Both hell and death come to an end. That is why Rev. 21 vs 4,5 can mentions that 'death will be no more' ?
'Death' inherited from Adam or Adamic sin. Whereas 'second death' is the punishment of 'everlasting destruction'.- 2nd Thess. 1 v 9.
You said you agreed that believing in Jesus makes you clean for "heaven".
You are reading heaven and eternal hell into these scriptures. Quote ONE verse that states Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell.
Here we go with the terms. The Bible does not specifically say "Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell".
Believers are saved from His wrath.
Romans 5:9 - Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 - and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
You said you agreed that believing in Jesus makes you clean for "heaven".
You are reading heaven and eternal hell into these scriptures. Quote ONE verse that states Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell.
If eternal hell is real like the fundamentalist would have us believe, and Jesus came to save us fom it,why is it that when you read of the gospel being preached in the book of Acts it is not there to be seen ?, where is it in the writings of Paul ?.
If you took eternal hell out of modern Christianity, their churches would empty quicker than you could say Ichabod.
OK - you're right - no hell. Yay. Now what?
God's wrath is still coming to those who don't believe in Him. That remains unchanged. It's still on God's calendar.
If I reject the invitation of Christ to come into my heart and to forgive my past sins, and begging Him to give me the Holy Spirit to cleanse me from my unrighteousness, while I am in the land of the living, I would be fearful of being lost if I die without that Holy Spirit.
simple solution ROMANS 10,9 and10 just do it and mean it.
Here we go with the terms. The Bible does not specifically say "Jesus Christ saved us from eternal hell".
Believers are saved from His wrath.
Romans 5:9 - Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 - and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
Here we go clutching at straws, because you cannot back up with scripture you are convincec of. Why doesn't it specifically state something that you would think would be vital for all to know ?.
You are reading eternal hell into wrath. You do understand the wrath of God is upon unbelief ?. Was that wrath upon you before you said you believed in Jesus, eternal hell ?.
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where is the reference to the bolded in the scriptures you are quoting ?. You're going nowhere until God as competed a work in you, and this will involve the fire you believe is reserved for the unbeliever.
good stuff
