The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment (LONG) (demons, grave, Romans, children)
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Pcamps - this was your statement - FYI (#228)... If you are asking me do I believe in your god up in the sky who commits worse crimes than the worst of all men and in knowing this willingly worship him.............. Then no, for that god is not the Living God.
What worse crimes.....?
According to Revelation 12 vs 9,12 Satan brings temporary 'woe' to earth.
Satan is the 'god' [ small letter 'g' ] of this world of badness- 2nd Cor. 4 v 4
When Jesus taught about the global woes or troubles that would happen on earth [ Matthew 24, Luke 21 ] Jesus was not teaching the problems on earth were caused by his God.
Drob,so you do not believe it is just to send a person who does not believe the way you do to eternal punishment ?.
You still don't get it.
Ultimately, regarding how unsaved people will fare in the end, your belief and my belief really doesn't matter.
Here's what I believe. Adam's sin corrupted all people inside and out, and God separated us from His presence. God has provided a means for people to be reconciled with Him that is available for ALL. In that reconciliation, the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in His Son, whom He sent. The Holy Spirit cleans our spirits so we are able to dwell in His presence - and we are one with Him. Without the Holy Spirit, people remain corrupted, and will not be fit to dwell in His presence. There is a place reserved for those who chose not the believe in the Son and receive the Spirit - i.e., eternal punishment.
In the end, my belief will mean nothing when the time occurs for the dead to be judged - because God will do what He desires. If I am wrong, nothing I can do. If I am right, nothing is credited to my account.
Ultimately, regarding how unsaved people will fare in the end, your belief and my belief really doesn't matter.
Here's what I believe. Adam's sin corrupted all people inside and out, and God separated us from His presence. God has provided a means for people to be reconciled with Him that is available for ALL. In that reconciliation, the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in His Son, whom He sent. The Holy Spirit cleans our spirits so we are able to dwell in His presence - and we are one with Him. Without the Holy Spirit, people remain corrupted, and will not be fit to dwell in His presence. There is a place reserved for those who chose not the believe in the Son and receive the Spirit - i.e., eternal punishment.
In the end, my belief will mean nothing when the time occurs for the dead to be judged - because God will do what He desires. If I am wrong, nothing I can do. If I am right, nothing is credited to my account.
So let me get this straight, are you saying by becoming a christian you are now clean and your life shows it, or are you saying by believing in Jesus you become clean to go to heaven ?.
God will accomplish what he desires, his desire is for all to be saved, not from eternal hell/punishment (nowhere to be found in the scriptures), but saved from all that keeps us from being all that God desires us to be.
What your statement says is that you chose to define God based on your preference - and if God acts outside of your preference, then He is not really God.
What your statement says is that you chose to define God based on your preference - and if God acts outside of your preference, then He is not really God.
What is says is i do not believe in the god you do.
So let me get this straight, are you saying by becoming a christian you are now clean and your life shows it, or are you saying by believing in Jesus you become clean to go to heaven ?.
God will accomplish what he desires, his desire is for all to be saved, not from eternal hell/punishment (nowhere to be found in the scriptures), but saved from all that keeps us from being all that God desires us to be.
The bold above is correct.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Acts 15:7-9 - After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Ephesians 1:13-14 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Acts 15:7-9 - After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
where is the reference to the bolded in the scriptures you are quoting ?. You're going nowhere until God as competed a work in you, and this will involve the fire you believe is reserved for the unbeliever.
You still don't get it.
Ultimately, regarding how unsaved people will fare in the end, your belief and my belief really doesn't matter.
Here's what I believe. Adam's sin corrupted all people inside and out, and God separated us from His presence. God has provided a means for people to be reconciled with Him that is available for ALL. In that reconciliation, the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe in His Son, whom He sent. The Holy Spirit cleans our spirits so we are able to dwell in His presence - and we are one with Him. Without the Holy Spirit, people remain corrupted, and will not be fit to dwell in His presence. There is a place reserved for those who chose not the believe in the Son and receive the Spirit - i.e., eternal punishment.
In Scripture what is 'eternal punishment' but 'everlasting destruction'.- 2nd Thess. 1 v 9.
Repent or perish [ be destroyed ] 2nd Peter 3 v 9
Choose life or perish [ be destroyed ] -John 3 v 16 B
The wicked will be 'destroyed forever'.- Psalm 92 v 7
The gospel is not a "believe in him" theorem or formula of man's acceptance.
Man desires the autonomy to accept or reject on an individual basis or group mentality:
" In order to condemn others who do not believe as they do!"
...talk about exalting oneself.
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where is the reference to the bolded in the scriptures you are quoting ?. You're going nowhere until God as competed a work in you, and this will involve the fire you believe is reserved for the unbeliever.
