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So god DOES change then? Man forces him to change???
No.
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And this is why I asked you to show me where god changed his mind on these things. Why did he change his mind? Follow the logic through and you might, you just might start to "see the light," Robin.
Not that He changed anything, but that His plan was fullfillled at one point and He guided it to another to fullfil His ultimate plan.
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So why did god set up the legalism in the first place only to have to release them of it later on? Again, follow the line of questioning, Robin. I know it may scare you as to where it can lead.
He didnt, but mankind imposed their interpritation on the laws.
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God did not know this BEFORE the time of Jesus/Peter? When did this light go off in his head to come up with this revelation?
He knew and He knew how ridiculous man would handle it and actually Christ was merely clarifying the truth to Peter.
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While in the Old Testament the punishment was NOT forgiveness, but rather, stoning to death. Seems like god did a lot of changing.
Actually no changing involved merely clarification. God did not want people to do these thing as a show of obedience which mankind continues to fail everyday.
That's pretty much been my point all along, Jremy. We all have one. And I appeal to the ability of God's Holy Spirit to convict people of their sin. I appeal to the Word to accomplish it's purpose.
Yes, the Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin. According to Paul, this is done through preaching by men. Keep in mind also that God gives pastor-teachers to the Church so that people should not be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. And while there is an interpreting work done within the heart by the Holy Spirit, this happens to all believers, and even then not to all believers in the same way. So, to set aside the teaching of others in the Church is to set aside the Holy Spirit's overall teaching ministry. He doesn't teach just one Christian. Therefore, your idea of direct teaching of the Scriptures apart from human teachers who are called and gifted by God is alarmingly unbiblical.
It also--as I have already mentioned--ignores the reality that we cannot escape the influence that human teachers have had on our own beliefs in the past. You didn't learn all your Christian beliefs while sitting on an island with just your Bible in hand. There are many beliefs you have which were imparted to you through the medium of human teachers. And that is as it should be because that is how God willed and ordained it.
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You could be right about me and my intent. Can you be sure that you are? Are you under the impression that language, in particular the written language, is completely unambiguous and therefore it is impossible for anyone to misunderstand the absolute truth, meaning and intent of what they read?
If you really believed this--that the written language is ambiguous--you wouldn't have written a single thing to me this whole time since if it is true, you can't even be sure that your own words, let alone anyone else's, are immune to misinterpretation. That renders the very statements you made in your post null and void. It renders all communication between us pointless and merely an exercise in futility. That, and all that I said to you above, is why I say to you: I'm done.
You shouldn't take it on scientific matters because it was meant to be spiritual, not scientific.
And since you admit this and both of us know it to be true, neither of should consult it on scientific matters. You nor I would turn to the Bible to find answers on, say, reproduction, the role of the hypothalamus or information about the pituitary gland, would we? Well the issue of sexuality and orientation is scientific so the bible is one of the last places to look to as an authority o the subject.
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It is an authority as to what is wrong with man and what the solution is.
Correct...as UNDERSTOOD by a people known as the Jews based on THEIR own biased views of the world they lived in.
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It is not my reality but reality from God's reality.
I know other people with other realities (all through history) who believed their realities came from some god also. I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with that. Give me observable and tested evidence instead. I feel better with that.
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I am in the 21st Century and using timeless principles as my guide. Just because you think they don't apply to us does not mean they don't. That is just your opinion which proves absolutely nothing except that you are biased against straight people who operate within their God-given nature.
I agree the bible has a few 'timeless principles' that can be found in other cultures all around the world that were in place long BEFORE there was a bible so there is nothing impressive in there for me. I am NOT biased. I don't even have a dog in the fight because I am as straight as an arrow and have ALWAYS been with a healthy appetite for women and women only since puberty. I am just being objective and open-minded on the matter.
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Had your mom and dad been gay you'd never have been born. I'm sure you'd have loved that.
Do I really need to answer this? Read it again, Eusebius (interesting choice of names, by the way) and you will see it makes absolutely no sense.
Monkey Brains????...were in the world did you get your information?...that is so ludicrous...Do your research first before making a statement like that...If that were the case then China would be dieing and not be so populated because that is where that delicacey exists...HIV came from the monkeys in africa that carried the disease but did not suffer from it...it was traced back to an african road worker that was bitten by this type of monkey and in the States it was spread due to a Canadian airlines steward...
7 hours of HIV/AIDS Training is where I got my info.
However, whether your version or mine the monkey is the culprit, not the homosexual. Therefore when you state (if you do) that HIV/AIDS is what homosexuals get for their sin.. that is hogwash. Many people who are not homosexual get HIV/AIDS... even newborns. So I would say that the evidence is there for HIV/AIDS to be a community problem not a homosexual problem.
7 hours of HIV/AIDS Training is where I got my info.
However, whether your version or mine the monkey is the culprit, not the homosexual. Therefore when you state (if you do) that HIV/AIDS is what homosexuals get for their sin.. that is hogwash. Many people who are not homosexual get HIV/AIDS... even newborns. So I would say that the evidence is there for HIV/AIDS to be a community problem not a homosexual problem.
It is actually a by product of sexual immoralty and yes many innocent people suffer for the sexual immorality of others.
And since you admit this and both of us know it to be true, neither of should consult it on scientific matters. You nor I would turn to the Bible to find answers on, say, reproduction, the role of the hypothalamus or information about the pituitary gland, would we? Well the issue of sexuality and orientation is scientific so the bible is one of the last places to look to as an authority o the subject.
The Bible is very accurate as to the nature of humanity and needs no scientific data on that.
You can't just glibly make the statement as given above and say "the Bible is one of the last places to look to as an authroity o[n] the subject." That is like saying, The Bible has nothing to say on the mating cycles of the African mosquito so how could it know anything about God and man and what the natural inclinations of man should be?
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It is an authority as to what is wrong with man and what the solution is.
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Correct...as UNDERSTOOD by a people known as the Jews based on THEIR own biased views of the world they lived in.
You have to prove their views were biased. You can't just say they were. Just think about it for a second. What is the male thing for besides urinating? What is the woman's female vagina for besides urinating and having periods? The male thing is for the female thing. That is the natural use of both. It is unnatural to put the male penis into the anus of another male. There is no possibility of reproduction in the latter. It is un-natural. The membrane inside the anus is so thin and lacking the ability to fight infections that it is the perfect place in which to start sexually transmitted disease.
The world view the Jews lived in what that the Greeks were largely homosexually inclined in the day the new testament was written.
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I know other people with other realities (all through history) who believed their realities came from some god also. I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with that. Give me observable and tested evidence instead. I feel better with that.
O.K. The Bible says "When two lie in bed there is heat." Feel better with that?
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Had your mom and dad been gay you'd never have been born. I'm sure you'd have loved that.
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Do I really need to answer this? Read it again, Eusebius (interesting choice of names, by the way) and you will see it makes absolutely no sense.
Had your mom and dad been gay they would have seen no need to marry each other and would have partnered with their own lesbo and gay partners and hence, you'd never have seen the light of day. You'd have been squirted up where the sun don't shine and said "Oh crap!" and been right for once.
If it really is spiritually harmful to people who are in hs relationships, is it loving to say that it isn't?
But if we've all been wrong about how we're interpreting these Scriptures, then what we are doing by continuing to hold to these beliefs is at least as spiritually harmful to ourselves as well as to the gay community.
Regardless, even if we are correct in believing that the Bible does not condone hs relationships, when we see the kind of damage that is being done to people by the hate that has been fostered to a great degree by us, don't we have to acknowledge that our approach is horribly, shamefully wrong? Isn't it absolutely imperative that we repent and change?
Sin corrupts...any sin...including homosexuality...all sin causes damage...so in your eyes why don't we all just overlook all sin and be cool with it....
Sin corrupts...any sin...including homosexuality...all sin causes damage...so in your eyes why don't we all just overlook all sin and be cool with it....
If it really is spiritually harmful to people who are in hs relationships, is it loving to say that it isn't?
But if we've all been wrong about how we're interpreting these Scriptures, then what we are doing by continuing to hold to these beliefs is at least as spiritually harmful to ourselves as well as to the gay community.
Regardless, even if we are correct in believing that the Bible does not condone hs relationships, when we see the kind of damage that is being done to people by the hate that has been fostered to a great degree by us, don't we have to acknowledge that our approach is horribly, shamefully wrong? Isn't it absolutely imperative that we repent and change?
How damaging do you think it is to a sinner that say, commits adultery or murder. to admonish him/her for there sin?...Do you not think that they will feel bad and psycologically tortured?...But, we do admonish sin...but, when it comes to homosexuality we are supposed to where kid gloves???...Sinners in the OT were stoned to death on the testimony of three witnesses...The Levitical Laws still hold...even though we break them and Christ has paid for those sins...the Law is not abolished ib us...but to be upheld...Homosexuality is a sin and unnatural...
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