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Simon Peter was said to have been crucified, and in a 'head downwards' position (Eusebius' Church History 3:1:2).
Jesus was said to have been crucified, and with his head 'bowed' (John 19:30).
There's no need to presume two different deaths.
Where does it say that Jesus never had a wife?
I don't mind if Jesus had a wife.. no problem.. I'm saying this more to point out that Jesus was supposed to be dead by the time Peter is shown with a wife, so how can Jesus have died yet lived as Peter? Like reincarnation or something?
If Jesus was Peter, which is a common Protestant argument for debunking the following critical set of biblical verses,".
Oh yes, I hear protestants making this claim all the time!
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Originally Posted by juj
then let us substitute Jesus everywhere that Peter appears, me for you, etc, and let's see if it makes any sense:
Yes, let's.
Matthew 16:13-19
13 Now when Simon came into the district of Caesare'a Philip'pi, he asked his disciples, "Who do men say that the Son of man is?"
14 And they said, "Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli'jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15 He said to himself, "But who do I say that I am?"
16 He replied, "I am the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17 And he answered himself , "Blessed am I, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to me, but my Father who is in heaven.
18 And I tell myself, I am Peter / a rock, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
19 I will give myself the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever I bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever I loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
21 From that time Simon began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.
22 And he took himself and began to rebuke himself, saying, "God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to me."
23 But he turned and said to himself, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men."[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Makes perfect sense to me.
Makes pefect sense to me too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Especially those last few verses. It's like Jesus is hearing voices in His head and talking with himself. Yea, that's the man that I want to follow.
Everyone talks to himself. It's known as thinking, or weighing something up. You may not want to follow him, but I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
What about writings of Peter, the Early Church Fathers, and references to Peter in the NT. I am sure that was Jesus all along. How could we be so stupid as to not see this incredible truth right before our eyes.
Kind of hard to be the disciple of an alias. Just say'n.
Not really. 'Jesus Christ' means 'Saviour Messiah'. It was the holy role that Simon Peter took on, and many called him by this name, much like leaders of the USA are commonly referred to as 'Mr. President' and the leader of Great Britain is often addressed as 'Prime Minister'.
The book 'The Judas Secret' cites twenty pieces of evidence claiming to show that 'Jesus Christ' was just an alias for the disciple Simon Peter. If there is no evidence that Jesus was not this man, is it OK for Christians to believe that he was?
GASP! You'er Choking!!!!
{beating you on the back}....."you spit that out RIGHT NOW!"
{shaking my finger at you}..."what have I told you about eating in stranger's houses? be they friends, or not, you have no business gobbling down everything set before you!
{helping to wipe off your mouth}..."don't you shove another thing down your throat without close examination, and stay away from those "Peter-Puffs" they aint good for ya!
There was the CROSS baring incident in the Gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Sherente
The book 'The Judas Secret' cites twenty pieces of evidence claiming to show that 'Jesus Christ' was just an alias for the disciple Simon Peter. If there is no evidence that Jesus was not this man, is it OK for Christians to believe that he was?
But was that Simon Peter who offered and actually bore the cross. Maybe he was joking. Oh God that must have sapped Jesus Christ. He needed to do His duty as redeemer.
Not really. 'Jesus Christ' means 'Saviour Messiah'. It was the holy role that Simon Peter took on, and many called him by this name, much like leaders of the USA are commonly referred to as 'Mr. President' and the leader of Great Britain is often addressed as 'Prime Minister'.
Actually Jesus Christ means "Jehovah is the savior anointed" or "Jehovah is the anointed savior" ...
"How could Simon Peter (aka Jesus) walk by the sea of Galilee, see Simon Peter (who is actually himself) and his brother and say to Simon Peter (himself) follow me?
I do not feel the need to rush out and buy the book - it sounds like something that is just based on speculation.
Maybe you can post some more reasons why you think it ok to believe that Jesus was actually Simon Peter.
Are you a christian? It would seem not as a christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the Son of God by the resurrection from the dead by the Holy Spirit. The promised Jewish Messiah."
Aw Come on maybe he was talking to himself in the mirror, calling himself brother, why else did his family think he was crazy. Haven't you ever watched "Fight Club."
Memorable Quote (From "Christ Club)
JOHN: In death a man in Project Salvation has a name. His name is Judas Iscariot.
ALL APOSTLES: HIS NAME IS JUDAS ISCARIOT! HIS NAME IS JUDAS ISCARIOT! HIS NAME IS JUDAS ISCARIOT! (REPEAT)
But, kidding aside, this is new to me. I've heard of Jesus being an alternate name for Michael the Archangel (this is not true either) No where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is anyone other than Jesus.
It definately doesn't say that Jesus is Peter. You might as well say that Jesus is actually me.
Well the concept of Peter being a pseudonym for Christ quite literally undermines much of the new testament, such as the book of acts and the gospels that present Peter as having denied Christ after his death.
Read the book, and you'll see just how it strengthens Christianity, and doesn't undermine it. It shows that the gospel is based on genuine historical truth, and pretty much disproves the athiest notion that Jesus is a myth.
The book of Acts is consistent with it. Don't assume that the New Testament is wholly chronological.
Simon Peter did deny 'Christ' at one point. I don't really want to say why, as I feel it would probably spoil the plot of the book for anyone who might choose to read it.
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GASP! You'er Choking!!!!
be they friends, or not, you have no business gobbling down everything set before you!
There was the CROSS baring incident in the Gospel.
