Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
matthew 7:13-14
13 enter ye in at the strait gate: For wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
first, this whole discourse is speaking of christians (read the parallel in lu.13:23)
second, it is speaking of entering into the kingdom of heaven and few enter into the kingdom of heaven by the strait gate, but many enter into the kingdom of heaven via the broad way through destruction.
this is seen here, after all judgments have all been passed by god we read how those who are without the gate, the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie are welcome in through the gates into the city for the spirit and the bride still say come and whosoever will may come and take of the water of life freely.
revelation 22:12-17
12 and, behold, i come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 i am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 for without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 i jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of david, and the bright and morning star. 17 and the spirit and the bride say, come. And let him that heareth say, come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Matthew 7:13-14 is distinquishing between those who have eternal salvation and those who are eternally lost. It is part of the same passage that concludes with verse 23 where Jesus tells those who were merely professing believers to depart from Him. He tells them, ''I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'' He said this to those who had prophecied in His name, cast out demons and performed many miracles. But they had not believed in Him for eternal salvation and so Jesus orders them to depart from His presence because He NEVER KNEW them.
The distinction is made between life and destruction.
Matthew 7:13 ''Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide (religion), and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter (destruction) by it. 14) For the gate is small, and the way is narrow (the Gospel) that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
matthew 10:28
28 and fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
true we are to have reverential awe of god who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
but what does it mean to be destroyed/appolumi in hell?
It means this:
Perish (622) (Apollumi from apo = away from or wholly + olethros = state of utter ruin <> ollumi = root of apollyon (Rev 9:11) = destroyer) means to destroy uttery but not caused to cease to exist.
Apollumi as it relates to men, is not the loss of being per se, but is the loss of well-being. It means to ruin so that the person (or thing) ruined can no longer serve the use for which he (it) was designed. To render useless. The gospel promises everlasting life for the one who believes. The failure to possess this life wil result in utter ruin and eternal uselessness (but not a cessation of existence).
Apollumi then has the basic meanng of describing that which is ruined and is no longer usable for its intended purpose.
Apollumi is the term Jesus used to speak of those who are thrown into hell (Matt. 10:28): As He makes clear elsewhere, hell is not a place or state of nothingless or unconscious existence, as is the Hindu Nirvana but is the place of everlasting torment, the place of eternal death, whre there will be ''weeping and gnashing of teeth (Mt 13:42,50).
there is a doctern that the church has been teaching for so long now that mankind excepts it without actually taking it to god and check it out in his word to see if it is true.this doctern is based on fear and is a lie more damaging then the one about the rapture.this doctern is eternal torment (e.t.) it is a lie and has not even entered into the mind of god. The scriptures tell us that jesus christ is the saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1tim4:10
did you get that? Jesus christ is the saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
the bible tell us except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
brothers and sisters this corn of wheat was fitted to destruction. Which brings me to the topic at hand.
what does it mean to be fitted to destruction?
i see two different conclusions to this verse.1) all men-universal2) one man-personal and i believe the scriptures speak of both and that both are assured to come to pass.
1) all men
ro.9:19-24 thou wilt say then unto me, why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20nay but, o man, who art thou that repliest against god? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus? 21 hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22what if god, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24even us, whom he hath called, not of the jews only, but also of the gentiles?
now why would god make vessels unto dishonour ?
so that he could shew his wrath and make his power known.(the power of thecross)
why did he make vessels unto honour ?
so he could make known the riches of his glory.
the vessels unto honour everyone i think will agree are those that overcome in this life,and the vessels of dishonour are those that don't.
okay then lets look how god is going to shew forth the power of the cross to the vessels of dishonour.
what if god, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
you can see that these vessels are fitted to distruction,but what does it mean to be fitted to distruction?
let look at it:
the word fitted comes from the greek word 2675 katartizo { kat-ar-tid’-zo}
from 2596 and a derivative of 739; tdnt - 1:475,80; v
av - perfect 2, make perfect 2, mend 2, be perfect 2, fit 1, frame1, prepare 1, restore 1, perfectly joined together 1; 13
gk - 2936 { katartivzw }
1) to render, i.e. To fit, sound, complete1a) to mend (what has been broken or rent), to repair1a1) to complete1b) to fit out, equip, put in order, arrange, adjust1b1) to fit or frame for one’s self, prepare1c) ethically: To strengthen, perfect, complete, make one what he ought to be
enhanced strong’s lexicon
so you can see they are to be made complete as they ought to be made,and how is that? In the image of god.
the other two scriptures fall into one of the categories i already addressed
a proper understanding of each word in scripture shouts forth the truth of universalism
Universalism is a lie straight from the pit of hell and is designed to lull those who are already spiritually dead and headed to eternity in the lake of fire into a false sense of security about their eternal future. It's purpose is to prevent the gullible from coming to understand the supreme importance of understanding that the issue of eternal salvation is that one must place his faith in Christ for salvation, to believe in Him.
One must understand that the issue is, ''For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have eternal life.'' John 3:16.
One must understand that ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; BUT he WHO DOES NOT OBEY (THE COMMAND TO BELIEVE) the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES (REMAINS) on him. John 3:36.
Matthew 10:28 is not about Jesus telling the disciples to destroy their souls.
It says exactly what it says. Jesus told the disciples not to fear those to whom they would be sent out as sheep in the midst of wolves as per Matthew 10:16. In Matthew 10:28 Jesus told them ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul. but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
And John 3:36 means exactly what it says. ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey (believe) the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.''
The passage is making a distinction between those who have eternal life and those who will not see life. All who die, who depart from this life without believing in Christ shall not see life. That means they will be eternally separated from God in a place of eternal conscious torment and in a condition of utter ruin and uselessness.
Mike, they will not listen to the truth even though it is right in front of their eyes.
Jesus said that they should destroy their souls in Matthew 10:28?? Are we reading the same thing as him? It's talking about fearing our Lord. It's very straightforward.
Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
John 3:36 is extremely straightforward as well. Believe and you'll have everlasting life. Don't believe and you won't.
Mike, they will not listen to the truth even though it is right in front of their eyes.
Jesus said that they should destroy their souls in Matthew 10:28?? Are we reading the same thing as him? It's talking about fearing our Lord. It's very straightforward.
Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
John 3:36 is extremely straightforward as well. Believe and you'll have everlasting life. Don't believe and you won't.
Actually there isn't a verse that says "don't believe and you won't" but you can add to scripture if you want.. that doesn't make what you are saying the truth though.
You keep inserting the (believe) after "obey" . . . obey does NOT mean "believe" . . . it means obey the commands to "love God and each other."
This is in reference to John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
1) The KJV says believeth.
2) I thought you believed everyone was saved? Now you are saying that the end of the verse means obey the commands to "love God and each other" and you're saved? Interesting.....
Actually there isn't a verse that says "don't believe and you won't" but you can add to scripture if you want.. that doesn't make what you are saying the truth though.
I never added scripture. I didn't quote that. Also, I will quote now, "Whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Same thing I said above. Reject Son= not see life or in other words Don't believe and you won't have life. I was paraphrasing.
Tell me, what do you think it means? I can assure you it doesn't mean they will be in heaven with the Lord.
Eternal life is to know God and his son...(John 17) so it stands to reason that not having eternal life is to NOT know God and his son.. Which is logical that a non-believer wouldn't have eternal life. Now is eternal life equal to salvation?
What to you is the prerequisite to salvation? And what does salvation mean to you?
Eternal life is to know God and his son...(John 17) so it stands to reason that not having eternal life is to NOT know God and his son.. Which is logical that a non-believer wouldn't have eternal life. Now is eternal life equal to salvation?
What to you is the prerequisite to salvation? And what does salvation mean to you?
Well, Non-believers (don't have eternal life) and believers (have eternal life) so it's fair to say that believers will have eternal life with God in heaven.
John 3:16 states, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life."
This is the requirement: believe in Jesus and you'll have everlasting life. Nothing more and nothing less, but it is a requirement. You cannot have everlasting life if you are an unbeliever. God isn't trying to trick us. His will is for everyone to have eternal life!
This is in reference to John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
1) The KJV says believeth.
2) I thought you believed everyone was saved? Now you are saying that the end of the verse means obey the commands to "love God and each other" and you're saved? Interesting.....
I have explained this misuse of the "believe in" (and its counterparts) elsewhere. It does NOT refer to proclaiming your belief. God does NOT NEED that. He KNOWS what you really believe. "Believe in" refers to an inner acceptance of the way of life of Jesus . . . it is more of an "into" or "among" or "within" Jesus . . . not a mere proclamation of belief. We can tell that you have that inner acceptance of Jesus' Holy Spirit within you based on your "love of God and each other." We can detect that you do NOT have it based on your lack of "love of God and each other." What you claim is irrelevant.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
