A Hypothetical Sitation - What would you say? (paradise, Gospel, hell)

[Bright Hope for Tomorrow]

Let's pretend for a moment that someone posted the following on this message board. I'll admit this is pretty sick, but it's one of those things people don't like to think about, and I believe it's important to explore all aspects of our faith as we get to know God's character.

- How would you reply?

- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?


I have a baby boy who is six-months-old. He's the cutest little thing I've ever seen in my life. He has brought me more joy than I have ever known before. All the dreams, hopes, and plans I have for him do not compare to my desire to make sure he doesn't end up in hell. I pray every day that God would not send him to hell, but I know it's not that simple. I know it is up to my son.

I want to raise him in church, teach him the word, teach him to pray, and lead him to Christ. One thing I worry about, though, is what if I die? My husband is at best a lukewarm Christian. There's really no way I can be certain that I'll be around to train him in the way that he should go.

I have a problem and I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm completely torn apart. My heart is hurting in a way that I never thought possible. I'm a strong Christian. I love God with all my heart, even though I really don't understand why he would send anyone to hell and torture them. I wish he could be more merciful and let the shed blood of Jesus save all people and not just the ones who believe he died for them, but that wasn't up to me.

The reason I feel like I'm going crazy is because I know there's an age of accountability, but I don't know when that is. I've been told it's different for different people depending on their ability to understand. The clock is ticking on my assurance that he won't go to hell, but I don't know when the time runs out. To make matters worse, I can't even find a scripture that says there is such a thing as the age of accountability, but if there is, I do know for sure that he is not yet there.

Please don't think I'm just having post-partem depression, because that's not it. I have been happier the last six months of my life than ever before until recently - until it starting sinking in what could happen to my child someday. I know I should trust God about it, but let's face it, mothers who love God lose children to hell every day.

I've hestitated to say what advice or help I'm seeking, so I'll just say it. I've been thinking lately that there is only one way I can make sure my baby goes to heaven, and that is to make sure he dies before the age of accountability. Before you think I am certifiabley insane, think about it. I would be assuring his salvation and I'll repent of murder quickly after it's done. I know God will forgive me because he knows my heart and knows I have good intentions. Also, I believe in eternal security so no one can pluck me out of God's hand anyway. I'm not very worried about spending the rest of my life in prison. For one thing, I have devised a plan that would probably be undectable, and it's painless by the way. I'd rather spend the rest of my life in prison than for him to spend eternity in fire.

I love him so much that I would probably go ahead and do it, except I'm not even sure there is an "age of accountability" since it's not in the scriptures. What if I kill him and it turns out that's not even true and he goes to hell anyway since he has not accepted Jesus yet?

You can see why I feel like I'm losing my mind. I need help deciding what is best for my child in the long run - not just the here and now. I would miss him every day for the rest of my life, and I might even spend it in prison, but I don't care. I have an instinct to protect my child from danger, and everything else pales in comparison to my desire to protect him from burning forever.

And believe me, regardless of what I decide to do, I'll never consider bringing another child into this world since I can't make sure they are safe for eternity. I really should have thought this out before I planned on having children.


This is sick, but similar situations have really happened to the earthly demise of the children.

- How would you reply?

- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?

[Eusebius]

First of all, there is no "age of accountability" in the Sacred Scriptures.

Secondly, some mothers who believe in eternal torment believed in this "age of accountability" idea and murdered their children before they reached "the magic age" so they wouldn't go to the mythological hell.

Bring up the child in a way that they know God loves them and has done everything to ensure their salvation.
Teach your child about believing God about Christ dying for his sins. Tell him he doesn't have to understand all the theological mumbo jumbo about that. Just believe God. Just say: "God, if you say Christ died for all my sins I believe You!"

[little elmer]

She first must see that salvation is of the Lord - He's not "up there" with His hands tied behind His back - He is actively working in the lives of people.

(You), as a believer in Him, are going to be blessed with offspring of the Lord. Walk in this knowledge.

[Enow]

Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow

Let's pretend for a moment that someone posted the following on this message board. I'll admit this is pretty sick, but it's one of those things people don't like to think about, and I believe it's important to explore all aspects of our faith as we get to know God's character.

- How would you reply?

- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?


I have a baby boy who is six-months-old. He's the cutest little thing I've ever seen in my life. He has brought me more joy than I have ever known before. All the dreams, hopes, and plans I have for him do not compare to my desire to make sure he doesn't end up in hell. I pray every day that God would not send him to hell, but I know it's not that simple. I know it is up to my son.

I want to raise him in church, teach him the word, teach him to pray, and lead him to Christ. One thing I worry about, though, is what if I die? My husband is at best a lukewarm Christian. There's really no way I can be certain that I'll be around to train him in the way that he should go.

I have a problem and I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm completely torn apart. My heart is hurting in a way that I never thought possible. I'm a strong Christian. I love God with all my heart, even though I really don't understand why he would send anyone to hell and torture them. I wish he could be more merciful and let the shed blood of Jesus save all people and not just the ones who believe he died for them, but that wasn't up to me.

The reason I feel like I'm going crazy is because I know there's an age of accountability, but I don't know when that is. I've been told it's different for different people depending on their ability to understand. The clock is ticking on my assurance that he won't go to hell, but I don't know when the time runs out. To make matters worse, I can't even find a scripture that says there is such a thing as the age of accountability, but if there is, I do know for sure that he is not yet there.

Please don't think I'm just having post-partem depression, because that's not it. I have been happier the last six months of my life than ever before until recently - until it starting sinking in what could happen to my child someday. I know I should trust God about it, but let's face it, mothers who love God lose children to hell every day.

I've hestitated to say what advice or help I'm seeking, so I'll just say it. I've been thinking lately that there is only one way I can make sure my baby goes to heaven, and that is to make sure he dies before the age of accountability. Before you think I am certifiabley insane, think about it. I would be assuring his salvation and I'll repent of murder quickly after it's done. I know God will forgive me because he knows my heart and knows I have good intentions. Also, I believe in eternal security so no one can pluck me out of God's hand anyway. I'm not very worried about spending the rest of my life in prison. For one thing, I have devised a plan that would probably be undectable, and it's painless by the way. I'd rather spend the rest of my life in prison than for him to spend eternity in fire.

I love him so much that I would probably go ahead and do it, except I'm not even sure there is an "age of accountability" since it's not in the scriptures. What if I kill him and it turns out that's not even true and he goes to hell anyway since he has not accepted Jesus yet?

You can see why I feel like I'm losing my mind. I need help deciding what is best for my child in the long run - not just the here and now. I would miss him every day for the rest of my life, and I might even spend it in prison, but I don't care. I have an instinct to protect my child from danger, and everything else pales in comparison to my desire to protect him from burning forever.

And believe me, regardless of what I decide to do, I'll never consider bringing another child into this world since I can't make sure they are safe for eternity. I really should have thought this out before I planned on having children.


This is sick, but similar situations have really happened to the earthly demise of the children.

- How would you reply?

- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?

There is no such thing as the age of accountability.

Psalm 58:3The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

I would think twice about that as it would be seen as denying the opportunity to confess Him before your children.

Matthew 10:33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. 40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. 41He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. 42And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

1 Peter 4:14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 15But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Proverbs 22: 5Thorns and snares are in the way of the froward: he that doth keep his soul shall be far from them. 6Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

John 5: 39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

If the believing wife had a non-believing husband...

1 Corinthians 7: 12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? 17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow

You can see why I feel like I'm losing my mind. I need help deciding what is best for my child in the long run - not just the here and now.

You are not losing your mind, it's already gone. A sane preson would not consider murdering her own baby.

[Bright Hope for Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
You can see why I feel like I'm losing my mind. I need help deciding what is best for my child in the long run - not just the here and now.

Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber

You are not losing your mind, it's already gone. A sane preson would not consider murdering her own baby.

When reading this reply, please know this was a hypothetical situation I posed!! FJ, your cut and paste makes it look like those were my thoughts and you were saying that to me.

Obviously, a person like this would be at least on the verge of insanity with this thought process, but I was looking for what someone would say to help her find peace and talk her out of doing a terrible thing. If that were your reply to someone with that state of mind, your comment would not help in the least.

I wanted to find out how someone could explain to her that it would be better to let her child live, even though she would risk him ending up in hell for eternity, as opposed to killing the child and being assured he would go to heaven since he had not yet reached the so-called age of accountability. What would you say to help her find peace, and what, if any, scriptures would you quote to help her to not worry about her baby growing up and ending up in hell?

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow

Obviously, a person like this would be at least on the verge of insanity with this thought process, but I was looking for what someone would say to help her find peace and talk her out of doing a terrible thing.

I would not try to talk sense to an insane person. I would inform the authorities immediately, and they would place her in a mental institution and make sure the baby is safe.

[Phazelwood]

A belief system does not justify anything anyone can do, I suppose, however this is a real issue.

Whether or not someone agrees with the age of accountability, the age of accountability is a traditionally popular message within christianity like it or not. That age of accountability is the supposed dividing line between heaven and hell upon death after a certain age and since Eternal Hell is the primary teaching of Christianity then IF you are a believer in the age of accountability then it is reasonable that these problems be seen and dealt with.

Labeling someone insane perhaps is a truth, however, that does not change the problem. If there is an age of accountability then all aborted babies are in heaven and do not have to fear making the wrong choices in life in order then to be damned to hell for screwing up. There is no rational that will avoid this truth "IF" this belief system is true as is often argued day in and day out.

Now, in consideration to a real incident of a mother killing her children believing they were not at the age of accountability yet, under that belief system this woman has sacrificed her own soul in order to ensure her childrens entrance into heaven. Under this belief system there is no rational that will avoid that truth.

Now the problem comes from the verse that says no greater love does a person have then they will lay down their life for someone else. This woman made a choice, a choice that from her perspective, no matter how insane someone can say she was , that her well being was unimportant and refused to allow her kids any chance whatsoever to end up in eternal misery. After all we hear day in and day out all the finger pointing at who will burn in hell, no second chances, doom doom doom to the unbeliever, doom to the heretic, doom doom. And we hear how righteous it is that they are all warning us in order for us to see how important this choice is. Day after day we hear it.

It doesn't matter how you want to paint the mother of a child those are the facts of the belief system and this action poses a problem to what it ultimatly teaches and whether it is true or not.

Christians come in here and the emphasis is on avoiding eternal hell, so much so that they state themselves that if eternal hell was not the main issue then there would be no point in any of the rest of the belief. If there is no eternal hell they say, then Jesus is irrelevant.

But, when someone is apparently willing to sacrifice their own eternal paradise for someone else then no one wishes to see just how selfless that seems to be or actually is.

Are there Christians that read this that would say that such an act would then damn the children to eternal hell? Are the children who are aborted actually in hell rather than heaven as we always hear?

If this life somehow is some glorious place where we have to make the choice betweeen heaven and hell and nothing else really matters, then what better fate can someone have than to die at a point where their salvation is assured? What is selfish and insane about a person willing to sacrifice their own well being to ensure it happens for someone else?

[Finn_Jarber]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Christians come in here and the emphasis is on avoiding eternal hell, so much so that they state themselves that if eternal hell was not the main issue then there would be no point in any of the rest of the belief. If there is no eternal hell they say, then Jesus is irrelevant.

They say that? Really?

Would you mind showing someone saying that here. Thanks.

What is selfish and insane about a person willing to sacrifice their own well being to ensure it happens for someone else?

You don't see the insanity in murdering your own baby? Trust me, it's insane.

[Phazelwood]

Don't have time to go back through a bunch of posts to find something, but in arguments about Christian Universalism comments are often made saying that the belief makes Jesus sacrifice pointless.

Within the CU belief system there are those who have varying beliefs from hell as torturous as it may be is temprary to believing it doesn't exist at all.

Some have said then if that is true then Jesus sacrifice meant nothing. They themselves do not actually believe Jesus is irrelevant, but they imply that certain ways of believing "if true" then would make Jesus pretty much pointless.

I would challenge a Christian who believes in eternal hell to explain Jesus relevance under their belief system if there was no such thing.