A Hypothetical Sitation - What would you say? (believer, abortion, prayer)
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Please don't miss the point of the post. I'm pretty sure everyone who reads this will agree she's insane for considering killing her child, even though her thought process does line up with traditional teachings.
The discussion I was trying to get started is about what you would say to this mother and what scriptures you would share to help her find peace in her heart, and to be assured that there is no logical reason to sacrifice her son's flesh for his eternal soul. Also, if she prayed about it, what would God reveal to her heart to give her peace?
All the bible verses and prayers in the world won't cure
mental illness. She needs to be reported to the authorities and taken care of medically. If someone had a compound fracture of their leg would you take them to the hospital or would you ask what scripture you should recite to them to make them feel better?? This is no different, she needs help and prayer won't cure her. It might help her through her therapy but scripture and prayer are never a cure by themselves.
All the bible verses and prayers in the world won't cure
mental illness. She needs to be reported to the authorities and taken care of medically. If someone had a compound fracture of their leg would you take them to the hospital or would you ask what scripture you should recite to them to make them feel better?? This is no different, she needs help and prayer won't cure her. It might help her through her therapy but scripture and prayer are never a cure by themselves.
I think you're missing the point. What could someone tell a mother who had those thoughts, to make her believe that letting her child live knowing there was a high risk he would burn eternally, be tortured to no end, with no hope of escape, was a better option than making sure he died before the age of accountability?
It's becoming clear from the posts so far that people who believe in eternal torment have no answer for this, but people who believe in God's ultimate reconciliation of all people to Himself can give an answer for the hope that is within us.
I think you're missing the point. What could someone tell a mother who had those thoughts, to make her believe that letting her child live knowing there was a high risk he would burn eternally, be tortured to no end, with no hope of escape, was a better option than making sure he died before the age of accountability?
It's becoming clear from the posts so far that people who believe in eternal torment have no answer for this, but people who believe in God's ultimate reconciliation of all people to Himself can give an answer for the hope that is within us.
No you're missing the point. Why would you hesitate for even ONE INSTANT thinking about what scriptures to quote to her rather than getting that baby to safety and the mother to medical help?? You'll have plenty of time after that to worry about what scriptural salve will work the best.
No you're missing the point. Why would you hesitate for even ONE INSTANT thinking about what scriptures to quote to her rather than getting that baby to safety and the mother to medical help?? You'll have plenty of time after that to worry about what scriptural salve will work the best.
I agree with that if you knew where they were, but my hypothetical situation was that this was a person posting to this forum. You wouldn't have any way to get the baby to safety, so all you could do was tell her something to make her change her mind.
I have a baby boy who is six-months-old. He's the cutest little thing I've ever seen in my life. He has brought me more joy than I have ever known before. All the dreams, hopes, and plans I have for him do not compare to my desire to make sure he doesn't end up in hell. I pray every day that God would not send him to hell, but I know it's not that simple. I know it is up to my son.
Here is my opinion for what its worth.
First: a comment on your handle "Bright Hope for Tomorrow".
What that is telling me is that there is no Hypothetical, but a sure hope.
If I may as a way of explanation, paint you a picture of what God is to us.
Adam was as like your child, innocent of any wrong doing until, the bible states, he and Eve ate of the fruit of the tree.
What that means is that for each one of us, there comes a time when we are mature enough to make decisions between what is good and evil.
"That day" the bible states, we die.
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
“That day†is inevitable to all of us as what they call “the original sinâ€.
That was a designed fault, yet perfect work of God, since God creates only in perfectness.
Had to throw that in so as not to give the wrong impression that God created imperfection.
Because there was a “flaw†as “in marred†in the Potters hands, that God as the Potter recreates a new vessel without any flaws.
That new vessel, without any flaws is Jesus, that in Him, together with the flawed vessel (Us) are thrown into the fiery furnace of God’s love, cleansed and purified….fit for the kingdom of heaven.
Your hope is well stated if, it is founded on the unconditional love of God us ward.
You have absolutely nothing to fear about yourself, your son going any where but heaven.
Teach him the reasons for your hope, and if you should not have that opportunity, pray that God would guide, and protect your son as he grows up.
The hell thing, the eternal torment thing is a matter of not understanding the unconditional love of God.
Jesus is our rest in hope as stated in the following verse: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hathsubjected the same in hope,
Key word there is “subjected†first to vanity, then to “hopeâ€.
Have no fear, love God and all His wonderful works in our behalf.
I agree with that if you knew where they were, but my hypothetical situation was that this was a person posting to this forum. You wouldn't have any way to get the baby to safety, so all you could do was tell her something to make her change her mind.
I know what you would do. You would lie to her and tell her that she and the baby are auto-saved no matter what they do with their lives. She'd be soooooo relieved. And then she and her baby would live and die in sin, and end up in hell anyway. Or maybe they would believe in Christ and be saved
Maybe telling a lie like that would be OK in order to keep the baby alive until the police arrive.
I understand this is theoretical. If someone has the belief that God is just sitting around waiting for people to screw up so he can damn them to hell, they need to reaccess there beliefs. The logical conclusion to that belief is that we are all going to hell and God has made us in his own image as just a cruel practical joke. If God had expected us to be perfect, I have to believe he would have made us that way. Since he did not, I believe he has given us a myriad of "outs" to avoid going to hell.
If your particular brand of religion preaches this kind old time fire and brimstone, find another church. They will undoubtedly have another version that suits you much better. I don't say that to be offensive, but taking this stuff too literality and then acting on it can get you on the evening news. I doubt God's intent was for us all to be living in constant fear, just that we all try and get along and be nice to one another, to put it simply.
Both of those comments are your opinion, and in my opinion you're wrong on both. I didn't see the last two lines, when I first submitted this post. I didn't convert to universalism any more than you joined The Eternal Torment Church. Universalism isn't even the right word. It's Universal Reconciliation or Universal Salvation and it only has to with Jesus being the savior of the world - no one else. Your belief appears to be that Jesus is the savior of a little bit of the world.
How many times do we have to say that JESUS CAME TO BE THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD, but many people DO NOT WANT A SAVIOR and so since he allows us to sin, he says fine and they go to hell.
Nothing. That's very sad, but I'm not surprised because the reality of the false teachings of a literal hell are shockingly insane when you really, really stop to think about it. You accused me of having 33 years of misery, but the reason you were wrong is because I didn't give hell that much thought. When my heart got right to the point that I cared about others, I cried out to God and asked him what I was supposed to do. That's when I was in misery, but my journey of misery only lasted a few months as God slowly, but surely revealed His true character to me. I had also asked Him, in trying to understand His plan of heaven and hell, "Who are You?" and he answered. "You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with your whole heart."
I have given hell a lot of thought...many, many, many years. My family is Mormon, Jewish and a few who believe nothing. I understand that they are going to hell if they don't repent. I pray for them ALL THE TIME. When I am with my family, I show them how Christ has changed me, but they don't want it. I CANNOT force them to believe in something. I am not in misery because I am doing what Christ asks me to do (witness and pray), but they need to do their part- repent. I am not going to stop enjoying life because people will be in hell. It's up to them and I can't make them want a Savior. I know Christ wouldn't want me to live my life in misery and I don't.
I know what you would do. You would lie to her and tell her that she and the baby are auto-saved no matter what they do with their lives. She'd be soooooo relieved. And then she and her baby would live and die in sin, and end up in hell anyway. Or maybe they would believe in Christ and be saved
Maybe telling a lie like that would be OK in order to keep the baby alive until the police arrive.
Interesting that you said it would be ok to tell her a lie (to you AKA UR), to keep the baby alive because you realize you don't have an answer to give her hope - no scriptures or words of comfort to explain to her that it makes more sense to take her chances on her son's fate than to assure he won't burn forever.
By the way, no police would arrive because she is only posting on this forum. You have no way to save the baby except to say something to the mother to help change her mind.
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