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I do not see anyone fretting over the babies, the point is that the mother killed the babies so that they would never have a chance to be in eternal hell based on growing older and then at some point being liable for their decision.
What I highlighted in red, how far does that go? Does the 50 year old not have to make a decision of faith and not lean on their own understanding they are then saved solely by this gift? No choice to accept Christ needs to be made at any age?
I understand the point you're trying to make. It is difficult to not but human reason into is. In simple terms, the scriptures say that God takes and deserves credit for a person coming to faith and humans are at fault for rejecting the offer.
How does one say it in a public forum so as not to enforce the decision theologists incorrect understanding while at the same time correctly convey that a person needs to decide to stop rejecting God's offer of salvation (repent), other than in trying to limit the audience... I don't know. The fact that Jesus often took his disciples off to the side to explain things away from the general hearing public, would indicate that sometimes it is better to have a controlled hearing audience. This maybe one of such topics...
You testified that you converted away from Christianity because it was too tough. You took the easy out, and converted to a more convenient religion.
Lie #1 - "You testified" - I most certainly never said what you quoted.
Lie #2 - "You converted away from Christianity " - I'm a member of a Southern Baptist Church who believes in OSAS and in Jesus, the Savior of the World, and that God will not burn any of his creation for eternity.
Lie #3 - "Too tough" - I never said that or felt that - You made that up.
Lie #4 - "You took the easy out" - I'm not even out.
Liie #5 - "Converted to a more convenient religion" - I'm a Southern Baptist who believes in OSAS and in Jesus, the Savior of the world, and that God will not burn any of his creation for eternity.
Wow! Five lies in two sentences. That might be a record. You might want to study the 10 commandments, and then repent of your lies.
"You took the easy out, and converted to a more convenient religion" could be considered your opinion, but "You testified that you converted away from Christianity because it was too tough" is nothing but a blatant lie. When someone starts misquoting others and making them waste their time defending themselves against lies as was clearly the case here, I think they should be banned from the site. Opinion is one thing, but to purposely misquote someone and lie about them is another.
Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 03-13-2010 at 01:00 PM..
There are two questions here that I see discussed, 1. make moves to save the child, physically if abused and two, satisfy once and for all the existence of hell, and live with the decision.
I for one, would make moves to save the child if it is in danger at any cost, and two, because I have made up my mind on the issue of hell, I have no worries as to the end results of the child, should I die first.
A point in the hypothetical situation that wasn't discussed is the decision to have children. People are sometimes judged and belittled for having another child after one is born with a hereditary disease because they think it's cruel to bring a child into the world, risking that they would have to deal with a disease. But no one seems to be judging people for bringing children into this world knowing they are at risk of being tortured forever.
The bottom line is that if there is a literal hell and there is an age of accountability, then God left a big loophole that He either didn't think to close, or chose to leave open. The loophole is that if a child dies/is murdered before they reach the age of accountability they have guaranteed salvation, which is the only way this mother could know for sure that her baby would not be tortured for eternity. If this loophole does not exist, then there is no age of accountability and babies and children burn in hell, or there is a misunderstanding about the lake of fire.
Let's pretend for a moment that someone posted the following on this message board. I'll admit this is pretty sick, but it's one of those things people don't like to think about, and I believe it's important to explore all aspects of our faith as we get to know God's character.
- How would you reply?
- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?
I have a baby boy who is six-months-old. He's the cutest little thing I've ever seen in my life. He has brought me more joy than I have ever known before. All the dreams, hopes, and plans I have for him do not compare to my desire to make sure he doesn't end up in hell. I pray every day that God would not send him to hell, but I know it's not that simple. I know it is up to my son.
I want to raise him in church, teach him the word, teach him to pray, and lead him to Christ. One thing I worry about, though, is what if I die? My husband is at best a lukewarm Christian. There's really no way I can be certain that I'll be around to train him in the way that he should go.
I have a problem and I feel like I'm going crazy. I'm completely torn apart. My heart is hurting in a way that I never thought possible. I'm a strong Christian. I love God with all my heart, even though I really don't understand why he would send anyone to hell and torture them. I wish he could be more merciful and let the shed blood of Jesus save all people and not just the ones who believe he died for them, but that wasn't up to me.
The reason I feel like I'm going crazy is because I know there's an age of accountability, but I don't know when that is. I've been told it's different for different people depending on their ability to understand. The clock is ticking on my assurance that he won't go to hell, but I don't know when the time runs out. To make matters worse, I can't even find a scripture that says there is such a thing as the age of accountability, but if there is, I do know for sure that he is not yet there.
Please don't think I'm just having post-partem depression, because that's not it. I have been happier the last six months of my life than ever before until recently - until it starting sinking in what could happen to my child someday. I know I should trust God about it, but let's face it, mothers who love God lose children to hell every day.
I've hestitated to say what advice or help I'm seeking, so I'll just say it. I've been thinking lately that there is only one way I can make sure my baby goes to heaven, and that is to make sure he dies before the age of accountability. Before you think I am certifiabley insane, think about it. I would be assuring his salvation and I'll repent of murder quickly after it's done. I know God will forgive me because he knows my heart and knows I have good intentions. Also, I believe in eternal security so no one can pluck me out of God's hand anyway. I'm not very worried about spending the rest of my life in prison. For one thing, I have devised a plan that would probably be undectable, and it's painless by the way. I'd rather spend the rest of my life in prison than for him to spend eternity in fire.
I love him so much that I would probably go ahead and do it, except I'm not even sure there is an "age of accountability" since it's not in the scriptures. What if I kill him and it turns out that's not even true and he goes to hell anyway since he has not accepted Jesus yet?
You can see why I feel like I'm losing my mind. I need help deciding what is best for my child in the long run - not just the here and now. I would miss him every day for the rest of my life, and I might even spend it in prison, but I don't care. I have an instinct to protect my child from danger, and everything else pales in comparison to my desire to protect him from burning forever.
And believe me, regardless of what I decide to do, I'll never consider bringing another child into this world since I can't make sure they are safe for eternity. I really should have thought this out before I planned on having children.
This is sick, but similar situations have really happened to the earthly demise of the children.
- How would you reply?
- If she prayed about her decision, what would God impress upon her heart to comfort her and give her peace?
Writeall these things in a diary for her Son. He will read these words someday. The Power of Christ in your heart.
A point in the hypothetical situation that wasn't discussed is the decision to have children. People are sometimes judged and belittled for having another child after one is born with a hereditary disease because they think it's cruel to bring a child into the world, risking that they would have to deal with a disease. But no one seems to be judging people for bringing children into this world knowing they are at risk of being tortured forever.
The bottom line is that if there is a literal hell and there is an age of accountability, then God left a big loophole that He either didn't think to close, or chose to leave open. The loophole is that if a child dies/is murdered before they reach the age of accountability they have guaranteed salvation, which is the only way this mother could know for sure that her baby would not be tortured for eternity. If this loophole does not exist, then there is no age of accountability and babies and children burn in hell, or there is a misunderstanding about the lake of fire.
To be able to understand the works of God in our behalf would satisfy you as to the outcome of all babies dying before their age of accountability.
I will quote just one scripture for you in which is the key to understanding the works of God: Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
What you see there is Gods work and has nothing to do with us except for being subjected.
That is the good news of in which we all should "rest" on.
Whatever we do here in this world whether right or wrong, good or evil, we are subject to cursing and or blessings.
In other words, we are judge here only on our works, but the soul saving is Gods work.
Blessings, AJ
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