The Influence of Universalism on Society and the Church (salvation, heaven, resurrection)
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I can't find the mention of Israel in that verse at all or in its context. Furthermore, the same reference to every tongue confessing is mentioned here:
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
And in that case the context is showing that it is being said to the Romans in reference to their Judging others reminding them that all shall confess to God. Clearly Rome is not in Israel.
Did you read Isaiah 45?....for it was written there first.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-24-2010 at 12:25 PM..
My apologies for not answering you. I will try here.
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Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
If you really do believe that "God finished it all in Christ," then why don't you believe all were saved when Jesus said, "It is finished?"
Because obviously not everyone is confessing their faith are they? The prophetic nature of the kingdom's arrival was finished, the work for "salvation and eternality" for His people was complete. Remember, prior to Christ, no one went anywhere but Sheol/Hades.
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The problem is that you say you believe God finished it because you know Jesus said He did, but you don't really believe that. You believe a person is the one who really has to finish it.
No..that is incorrect.
God is responsible for who HE CHOOSES for His good work.
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Again, if you believe that, why bother sharing God with anyone if it's already been determined who's chosen?
Because you, who is witnessing, are part of that work and regenrtation God uses to bring someone to the faith, those whom He already chose.
Your witness, is an integral part of His work and regeneration.
The whole purpose of the gospel.
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About "disembodied souls," I believe everyone was already saved when Jesus died on the cross, not that they will be saved in the future.
Ok......you mean the salvific work on the cross offered the road to salvation for those who put their faith in Him? Unlike before, when there was no road to redemption from sin for anyone.
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Just because all are saved doesn't mean they will not be justly punished and corrected until they are made right with Christ.
Scripture to support the above view?
I am already made right with Christ, because His blood is on me.
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Regarding your comment that God didn't say, "Hey, you deny my Son, don't worry, you won't be burn forever for it." When the Holy Spirit originally revealed it to my heart, there was no mention of denying Christ, it was more along the lines of, "There's nothing you can do to help save people. I have it taken care of all by myself. I am Love. I am merciful, and nothing about Me or My character is willing or even capable of burning people forever." (I'm sure you realize it wasn't spoken words.)
Interesting, because the scriptrues tell a different story about God's feelings on those who deny Him and His Son.
Guys please take another look at the op..These long threads tend to take off in other directions so this is just a reminder
my apologies for being one of them..
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks
Rom. 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." But to have the Spirit Jesus says one must be born again spiritually. 2 Cor. 1:21-22 "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee." Paul said prior to this in 1 Cor.1:18 "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing" and then makes the application "but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." There is saved and unsaved and the believing in the crucifixion makes all the difference instaed of the death of Christ making universalism possible this make universalism a complete impossibility.
The two strongest passages from Paul that are used for universalism are 1 Cor. 15:21-28 and Eph. 1:10, yet one must twist all his other statements to prove Paul held the doctrine of universal salvation. An unbiased study of the passages clearly shows this is not the apostle's intent. Cor. 15: 21-28, we have first the statement--"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (ver. 22). Paul affirms that in Christ all shall be made alive not all shall be made alive outside Christ as a general promise.
The point is how does on get in Christ?
The Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:22 "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive" All who are descended from Adam die. So in Christ all shall be made alive. This verse has been taken to teach universal salvation. It is argued that the same ones who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ, and that all will eventually be saved. But that is not what the verse says. The key phrases are in Adam and in Christ. All who are in Adam die-- these are those who are born once in a physical body. All who are in Christ shall be made alive, these are those who were born spiritually. Only believers are in the Lord Jesus Christ, they only will be raised from the dead to dwell eternally withHim.
2 Cor. 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
Col. 1:28 "Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." What's the sense of warning if everyone is ok? No sense preaching Jesus.
Gal. 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Doing good to others will not get you to heaven at all, only Jesus will.
Rom. 3:21-24 "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"
2 Tim 1:9 "who has saved us (through faith-not by osmosis) and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" you find your purpose from being in Christ.
Eph 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." One must have the faith to do these good works so that they are in Christ as the previous verses state.
So any other scripture that has promises in Christ Jesus has to be defined by this "As you have given Him [Jesus] authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as you have given Him" (John 17:2). Jesus said "as many," not "all" He gives eternal life to. The Gospel of Inclusion makes this a voided statement as it does other statements Jesus preached on the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46); the gate is narrow not wide (Matthew 7:13-14), it's not an 8 lane highway.
Contrary to Pearson and other universalists opinions, Paul did not teach universalism. Phil. 3:8-9 "Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith." You cannot be IN Christ by another religion. Christianity teaches the opposite of trying to be accepted by God by your own works. Paul taught against this even though he practiced Judaism more zealously than anyone of his time.
Again one must believe in the gospel to receive anything from Christ. Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Over 240 times the Scripture command to believe and exercise faith on Christ for salvation.
Nothing could be clearer to refute universalism. There are too many qualifying scriptures that abolish a universal view. For it was Jesus who said, "except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
When you are dead, you are not a man, but a soul clothed with either an incorruptible body, or your without a body entirely.
A MAN must be born again.
I Jn. 5:12-13 "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."
All good Miss Blue...thanks for the reminder. Also Folks, it is very pertinent not to just address the text in the first post, but the entire article provided at the link.
I am not insulting...stateing an observation...are you trying to say that Christ talks to you regarding things outside of Scripture?...
I've completely lost my patience for this nonsense. I'm saying, not trying to say, that Jesus Christ was resurrected whole and recognizable. Therefore, we can expect the same. End of discussion.
I told you what the scriptural support is....Christ Himself!! My knowledge is as deep as anyone else's here.....I just have a low tolerance for stupidity. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen and stop resorting to insults. THAT makes a person look unintelligent.
You say you are filled with love now that you have received the truth, but I don't see that at all in your posts. Practice what you preach.
Global warming? Who is saying ET causes global warming? ET is a LIE and the more people actually believe it, the worse they will treat people. Most do not actually believe it.
This is slander. Obviously you have no idea who believes it or not so don't make blanket statements like this.
This is slander. Obviously you have no idea who believes it or not so don't make blanket statements like this.
I can make that statement, because I have been around enough people to jusify the generalization.
You don't believe it, that is for sure.
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