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You're kidding, right? You haven't heard of the electric grid? You think the electricity runs around the country with a label on it like tomatoes from California? You are obvioulsy uninformed about the very basics of this issue and ill equipped for a rational discussion. More than 75% of our electric power comes from fossil fuels. When you consume electricity in our grid system, you are increasing the consumption of fossil fuels. It matter nothing where you are or what type of equipment is using the power. If you don't know that, it is easy to understand why you think electric trains contribute positively to the environment which they don't!
I know , Amtrak has there info up and its not that hard to see. NYC is powered by Hydro dams. Our system is powered by Nuclear , Wind , and Hydro depends on which part of network. Yes our regular power comes form coal and Natural Gas but not our Transit systems.
Huh , it depends on your Region. The Northeastern systems get there power form Hydro , Nuclear , Wind and Biomass. Amtrak uses Hydro Electric for there Keystone & NEC lines. Light Rail can hold between 200-300 ppl it depends on the design of the car. You might want to see some of our systems. There half full in between peak hrs and full during peak hrs. Standing room on most lines. The LRT is tetris room only You don't seem to know what your talking about. There lighter then Commuter trains and HSR Trains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey
I know , Amtrak has there info up and its not that hard to see. NYC is powered by Hydro dams. Our system is powered by Nuclear , Wind , and Hydro depends on which part of network. Yes our regular power comes form coal and Natural Gas but not our Transit systems.
OK, I'm going to try to explain this really simply so that we can get back to the real discussion here and maybe you or one of the other train acolytes can tell me what trains bring to the party that should make me want to squander the public treasury on worn out, expensive ideas of the past.
When 1000 rail cars take off or 10,000,000 people turn on their air conditioning because it gets a little hot out, no one calls up the Niagra River and says "we need a little more hydro electric power down here." And they don't send a memo out to the West Wind and say, "could you blow a little harder?" And, they don't throw a little more uranium on the fire at some nuclear plant (which have not increased their contribution to power for 30 years). What they do is to consume more fossil fuels. End of story.
Futuristic thinkers have postulated disposable community nuclear systems (the idea is that a self contained nuclear system the size of a car or so would be located in each community and for each transportation system and factory complex and generate nuclear power for its half life then be removed and replaced. As for cars, the technology is already here for centrally controlled personal electric vehicles. We could end accidents, car theft, parking problems, buses, etc. We just need clean electric and a willing public. If we would stop wasting money on 19th century technology like rails and get to the future we would make some progress. But backward thinkers using old worn out ideas like rails drag us back into the past. The more money wasted on rails the longer it will take to get rid of the old and bring in the new. The rails aren't just bad technology, they are the enemy of good ideas.
OK, I'm going to try to explain this really simply so that we can get back to the real discussion here and maybe you or one of the other train acolytes can tell me what trains bring to the party that should make me want to squander the public treasury on worn out, expensive ideas of the past.
When 1000 rail cars take off or 10,000,000 people turn on their air conditioning because it gets a little hot out, no one calls up the Niagra River and says "we need a little more hydro electric power down here." And they don't send a memo out to the West Wind and say, "could you blow a little harder?" And, they don't throw a little more uranium on the fire at some nuclear plant (which have not increased their contribution to power for 30 years). What they do is to consume more fossil fuels. End of story.
Futuristic thinkers have postulated disposable community nuclear systems (the idea is that a self contained nuclear system the size of a car or so would be located in each community and for each transportation system and factory complex and generate nuclear power for its half life then be removed and replaced. As for cars, the technology is already here for centrally controlled personal electric vehicles. We could end accidents, car theft, parking problems, buses, etc. We just need clean electric and a willing public. If we would stop wasting money on 19th century technology like rails and get to the future we would make some progress. But backward thinkers using old worn out ideas like rails drag us back into the past. The more money wasted on rails the longer it will take to get rid of the old and bring in the new. The rails aren't just bad technology, they are the enemy of good ideas.
So wouldn't you mind this 25 million $$$ going highway improvements? And can you tell me why the Northeastern States are spending over 290 billion $$$ on New Rail Projects this decade alone. If it was bad technology we wouldn't be doing it. We have Asian & Euro Trains here , ridership has been going up , we must be doing something right.
And the happy Mt Lookout/Hyde park "stepford wives' suburban utopia is dying. Soon to be filled with section 8, low income housing and crime. Unless your area is "magically" different than EVERY other Midwestern city where the 'near burbs' are being overun with the poor pushed out of downtown.
OK, now you lost me with this one. How is it that you have this unbridled optimism for "near burbs" like your beloved Knox Hill, Westwood, Price Hill etc, and then come around and say that Hyde Park and Mt Lookout are dying? That contradiction would seem to be a huge blow to your credibility. I still respect the work that you do and your faith in urban neighborhoods, but this makes no sense to me.
Centrally controlled personal electric vehicles- I know there are horrible drivers, but I hate the trend that cars are trying to make every decision for you. It seems sissy and limits freedom. Further, I'm not naive enough to think computers don't fail and create huge problems.
Centrally controlled personal electric vehicles- I know there are horrible drivers, but I hate the trend that cars are trying to make every decision for you. It seems sissy and limits freedom. Further, I'm not naive enough to think computers don't fail and create huge problems.
Yea, there is so much more choice in light rail as to where you go and how fast, etc. And those trains never get bollixed up.
OK, now you lost me with this one. How is it that you have this unbridled optimism for "near burbs" like your beloved Knox Hill, Westwood, Price Hill etc, and then come around and say that Hyde Park and Mt Lookout are dying? That contradiction would seem to be a huge blow to your credibility. I still respect the work that you do and your faith in urban neighborhoods, but this makes no sense to me.
My point was that what have been considered "traditionally safe' neighborhoods that are not Near downtown but are what might be called "near burbs" often go through cultural changes as a result of Urban revival.
For example to take Indianapolis as an example. Areas like Warren Township, Lawrence and the Lafayette square areas were solid areas. When Indy experienced its Urban renaisance lower income residents were pushed farther out as was low income subsidized housing. People who lived in those "safe neighborhoods' when that arrived, left either to downtown or the "Far burbs like Carmel, Greenwood and Plainfiled. Areas where houses sold for 200-300 K now sell for 70K or less, because the neighborhood demographic and crime changed. Once solid areas like the area around 46th to 56th and Arlington, once mostly white , mostly jewish and catholic upper middle class areas are now some of the worst crime ridden areas in the city. Crime left downtown and headed farther out with the people it displaced. Now 15 years later Crime is beginning to creep into even those safe "far burbs".
Everyone likes to "think' that you can turn around areas and 'somehow' it will be some kind of "Urban Utopia" of multi income multi cultural, still room for the disadvantged world. The reality is; It turns around, becomes very expensive and eventually the '20 somethings' that were the start of things find they are 'priced out' of living there.
Much like the Urban neighborhoods went into decline in the 70s, 80s,90s, the traditional suburban areas that people went to to "escape' the problem now find themselves with the problems. It wasnt their fault, it was just changing times, create new circumstance.
This is of course one of the reasons for the sprawl problem which Hamiton County has not tried to regulate in any way and one of the reasons that we now find ourselves taling about streetcars and light rails.
A clear sign that near burbs are in danger is the death of shopping malls.
My point to Wilson was, he should not feel so 'smug' about him being "safe' from the problems of urban living because there is strong evidence to support that the same thing will happen to Cincinnati "near burbs' that has happened to every other city that has experienced a massive urban turnaround.
It can be prevented somewhat by tightening zoning regulations and such but when people decide its time to leave because they see a change thay dont like they leave. Especially if foreclosures drive home values down and people panic. Just like many left my neighborhood between 1990-2003 because of section 8 and the 'emptying' of OTR after the riots, people are starting to come back and its swinging back to what it used to be, slowly, but its headed there.
Westwood is going through this process as are parts of Walnut Hills and both are starting to bounce back. To assume it can't happen elsewhere is foolish. I know as I check the foreclosure filings I am seeing alot more foreclosures in Hyde Park and MT Lookout, no doubt caused by the current unemployment crisis and people unable to afford their home on just one income. As you know foreclosures and short sales are often highly discounted. Both Hyde Park and Mt Lookout have recorded impressive runups in value over the last 10 years but those can be quickly eroded as the middle class and management class experience this drawn out economic downturn. Both areas are already viewed as "overpriced' y most home buyers in todays market.
A handful of foreclosures in one neighborhood can reduce appraisals by 20-30 percent, or more. That determines loan values for people refinancing or buying a house. Just as set of circumstances can tip a neighborhood to the positive as it is in some areas of Cincinnati, another set of circumstances can tip it the other way and neighborhoods can lose half thier value.
Would anyone have EVER thought parts of Avondale which was yesteryears equivalent of Indian Hills today, would struggle when those grand suburban Mansions were built off Reading Road? I doubt it.
I think one of the reasons there is so much anti streetcar, anti 3CDC, anti west side neighborhoods turnaround by some of the people on the boards is that they really are worried that if downtown and near downtown neighborhoods change their "safe life' might be negatively impacted because people have more housing options now. People often fight change because they view it as protecting their own way of life not because it isn't a good idea.
Last edited by restorationconsultant; 07-13-2010 at 08:00 AM..
Reason: more data
I envision that most all highway lanes will be commandeered to facilitate programmed vehicle travel. Light, electric vehicles packed together with only sufficient spacing to permit safe emergency actions, which are routed based on traffic volume and exit the system onto non-programmed access roadways at the request of the occupants. Aircraft and ships use this technology for highly efficient safe operation. Why make it more difficult with the addition of a bunch of old rail lines in the way of everything. No one wants to sit on a filthy train with a bunch of gurning munters. They want to be in control of their climate, smells, sounds and exit when ever they want, not when a conductor tells them to.
Public transportation will get smaller, not larger, to accommodate the more diverse destinations and travel plans of riders. Controlled vehicles carrying a dozen or less rider will be the ideal. Like sharing a cab.
A clear sign that near burbs are in danger is the death of shopping malls.
I don't know that the death of a mall is a sign that a suburb is in danger. We saw enclosed malls dying before the downturn in the economy because retail outlets transitioned over to an "open-air, lifestyle center" format. All of the lifestyle centers I see in the suburbs are still going strong. I recently took a trip through Cincinnati and Hamilton County, and observed some things which I will be posting in a separate thread later. From what I saw, it wasn't all butterflies, lollipops, and roses.
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You don't seem to know what your talking about. There lighter then Commuter trains and HSR Trains.
