Cincinnati Streetcar Under Construction (Cleveland, Fairfield: section 8, renters, home)

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Your proposed route sounds reasonable to me. But when I posted a question on another forum as to whether the current utility and infrastructure construction for the U-Square at the Loop development included any provisions for a future streetcar route I was lambasted from all sides and informed there was absolutely no plan to run a streetcar there, only straight up Vine to the zoo. Seems rather shortsighted to me, but what do I know I am just an observer.

I think you are referring to Urban Ohio Forums, and there are some cool posters over there BUT the main admin is a complete a$$. Coldayman or something like that. He went off on some cat over there yesterday for next to nothing. Usually when the place is run by some like that then any meaningful debate isn't gonna happen. I lurk there but would never think of posting.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I think you are referring to Urban Ohio Forums, and there are some cool posters over there BUT the main admin is a complete a$$. Coldayman or something like that. He went off on some cat over there yesterday for next to nothing. Usually when the place is run by some like that then any meaningful debate isn't gonna happen. I lurk there but would never think of posting.

That was an easy guess wasn't it. I have already sent the administrator a request to delete my account since there is no ability to do it myself. Yes there are some good posters there but the overall follow right down our line or we will try and rip you a new one attitude is too much for me.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by jasomm

"Want to Understand Republicans? First Understand Evolution"

Explains a lot.

And defend kjbrill...

Hello Jason...I don't see what a HuffPo post on Republicans has to do wotih a discussion on the Cincinnati streetcar (which I personally am glad to see going forward), but my take is, you're using that post to maybe label kj as a Republican due to his opinions on this matter...and to coin a phrase, I ain't havin' it...

He (kj) is one of the posters here whom I respect, whether I agree with him or not...and my NOT agreeing with him on occasion, doesn't prod me to slap a 'GOP' label on him---that is just utterly silly

He has already identified himself, more than once, as someone in his 70's, and I think any 'fear' he talks about (in fact he clarified this in another post in this very thread) is not just for himself and his wife, but for his grandkids as well...

Now, if I took your post the wrong way, or read it incorrectly, then take this as my official apology...I am more than man enough to admit when I am wrong on something

But should I be right, then I think you might wanna take it down about a 1000...you have the right to post, and to agree or disagree with fellow posters as you see fit...but this 'shoot-from-the-hip-yer-a-Republican/Liberal-and you smell!' instant labeling jazz is a bunch of unnecessary hooey

Frankly, let's talk about the streetcar, and keep whoever's politics out of it

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

That was an easy guess wasn't it. I have already sent the administrator a request to delete my account since there is no ability to do it myself. Yes there are some good posters there but the overall follow right down our line or we will try and rip you a new one attitude is too much for me.

Yep!

[kjbrill]

So let me ask the question here. Is the uptown streetcar route cast in stone? Would it not be prudent to at least consider a potential streetcar route while doing a considerable amount of utility and infrastructure changes for the U-Square at the Loop development?

I can anticipate the initial ridership may involve a good number of hospital employees, but there are also quite a few along Clifton Ave. So I can envision a large loop around UC and back downtown.

Perhaps the Northside connection needs to be a separate expansion with its own line. A transfer station would be required. Since streetcars are not the fastest things going, you have to consider average trip time. If you stretch the average trip time out too long, people will simply not use them, as their objective is to get from Point A to Point B as fast as possible.

That is probably why the car currently dominates, as it only has one objective Point A to Point B, no stopping to let other people off or pickup along the way. No lost time just sitting waiting to keep on the pre-defined schedule. That is why car-pooling is not a really significant portion of commuter travel.

People can easily car-pool but avoid it as an interference into their own personal time. Of course if the price of gas escalates you will see far more car-pooling to offset the pinch on the family budget. And guess what, car-pooling is very efficient, it does not require some government agency to pass a long term transporation budget, no increased taxes, just an agreement our travel together will involve some degree of personal inconvenience we will put up with.

If streetcars are going to be successful their routes and trip times must be efficient. We humans are an impatient species. Make us wait too long and we will find an alternative, if we can afford it

I think the construction is away, though I still wonder about the utility argument between the City and Duke. Looks like a looming court argument to me.

But that aside, what is the next step? The City must immediately apply for TIGER III grants to expand the system to the uptown locations prior to its being finished. Otherwise it is not a true transportation system but a tourist curiosity, or as Wilson catagorizes it an expensive amusement ride.

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Your proposed route sounds reasonable to me. But when I posted a question on another forum as to whether the current utility and infrastructure construction for the U-Square at the Loop development included any provisions for a future streetcar route I was lambasted from all sides and informed there was absolutely no plan to run a streetcar there, only straight up Vine to the zoo. Seems rather shortsighted to me, but what do I know I am just an observer.

Yeah I saw that in the U-square thread the other day. That's unfortunate. I went ahead and read the streetcar feasibility study this morning, and the route I described (down to Ludlow) was shown on a map as a possible future extension. Just getting the streetcar up to UC is essential in my opinion. But, if the route I described is built someday, I can see the system being heavily used by UC students to get to entertainment in Downtown, OTR, Ludlow business district, and Northside. Hopefully it will be seriously considered in the future.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

And defend kjbrill...

Hello Jason...I don't see what a HuffPo post on Republicans has to do wotih a discussion on the Cincinnati streetcar (which I personally am glad to see going forward), but my take is, you're using that post to maybe label kj as a Republican due to his opinions on this matter...and to coin a phrase, I ain't havin' it...

He (kj) is one of the posters here whom I respect, whether I agree with him or not...and my NOT agreeing with him on occasion, doesn't prod me to slap a 'GOP' label on him---that is just utterly silly

He has already identified himself, more than once, as someone in his 70's, and I think any 'fear' he talks about (in fact he clarified this in another post in this very thread) is not just for himself and his wife, but for his grandkids as well...

Now, if I took your post the wrong way, or read it incorrectly, then take this as my official apology...I am more than man enough to admit when I am wrong on something

But should I be right, then I think you might wanna take it down about a 1000...you have the right to post, and to agree or disagree with fellow posters as you see fit...but this 'shoot-from-the-hip-yer-a-Republican/Liberal-and you smell!' instant labeling jazz is a bunch of unnecessary hooey

Frankly, let's talk about the streetcar, and keep whoever's politics out of it

Amen. Thanks for the voice of reason.

I'm a steadfast opponent of the streetcar project AND a steadfast opponent of groups like COAST, too. It's kind of tough to be in a position where you don't oppose spending like the COASTers, but think the spending should be directed elsewhere for best effect. It certainly has felt like no one really spoke for me and people like me in this whole business.

[CinciFan]

[quote=kjbrill;23092043]So let me ask the question here. Is the uptown streetcar route cast in stone? Would it not be prudent to at least consider a potential streetcar route while doing a considerable amount of utility and infrastructure changes for the U-Square at the Loop development?[quote]

I believe the only part of the uptown extension that has been decided on is the connector up Vine Street hill (due to its grade and redevelopment potential). And I agree with you. If there is no rhyme or reason to where utilities are placed underground, then they might as well put them where they would need to be to allow for a future streetcar route. This would save money in the end, so I think it should definitely be taken into consideration.

[kjbrill]

[quote=CinciFan;23092224][quote=kjbrill;23092043]So let me ask the question here. Is the uptown streetcar route cast in stone? Would it not be prudent to at least consider a potential streetcar route while doing a considerable amount of utility and infrastructure changes for the U-Square at the Loop development?

I believe the only part of the uptown extension that has been decided on is the connector up Vine Street hill (due to its grade and redevelopment potential). And I agree with you. If there is no rhyme or reason to where utilities are placed underground, then they might as well put them where they would need to be to allow for a future streetcar route. This would save money in the end, so I think it should definitely be taken into consideration.

Hey, someone who believes there should be a reason applied to these developments. If the replaced utilities involve an incemental cost to consider a streetcar, than maybe those costs should be a candidate for special reimbursement. But if we have no agency charged with looking at such things or with resources to support it we are charging up the wrong trail. These developments will break the bank without long term planning.

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Amen. Thanks for the voice of reason.

I'm a steadfast opponent of the streetcar project AND a steadfast opponent of groups like COAST, too. It's kind of tough to be in a position where you don't oppose spending like the COASTers, but think the spending should be directed elsewhere for best effect. It certainly has felt like no one really spoke for me and people like me in this whole business.

As much as I am glad the streetcar is being built, I see your point that the opposition to the streetcar was not well represented. I don't know where along the way COAST became the main opposition, but that definitely hurt the cause. When a group makes statements that the streetcar system will be worse than 9-11, that that girls death in Westwood was due to the streetcar, and insinuating Cincinnati will become like communist Leningrad because of a streetcar, they lose all credibility.