Cincinnati Streetcar Under Construction (Columbus, Cleveland: mover, hotel, casino)

[CinciFan]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

This is usually referred to as an artist's conception, meaning its accuracy is suspect.

Yeah, that's the route as currently planned, but a lot of transit maps are drawn in this way so they are easier to understand and follow the route. They don't show every little turn, as that would get confusing. The streetcar will only run in existing streets.

EDIT: Sorry, quoted the wrong post

[jmecklenborg]

That map is by David Cole, who is in the master's of architecture program at DAAP. It is not an official map. It was drawn at least one year ago, before Kaisch stole the $50 million in TRAC money for his home county.

The current plan differs slightly from what you see here, as the streetcar will turn on Second St., not on Freedom Way. Also, there will probably be a turnaround track on Central Parkway between Main and Walnut to permit streetcars to only operate south of Central Parkway in case of a service disruption in Over-the-Rhine. Also, this turnaround will likely be used by any streetcars from a future NKY line.

The University Plaza shopping center is being partially demolished as we speak (Blockbuster is down, with fencing around Pizza Hut), but it was planned to have been flattened about a year ago. That project was delayed by the closing of the Keller's IGA in Clifton, which became a windfall for the Corryville Kroger. It appears that it will remain open as-is until something happens with Keller's. This might mean a redesign of the new shopping center permitting the track to run through it. This was the original plan circa 2008, when Kroger proposed a new store with parking on the roof.

Obviously Kroger's long-term plans for its city stores were upended by the sudden closure of Keller's IGA and the apparent new store planned for 5th & Race at the base of the Dunhumby USA building. I suspect that 3CDC was the push for the downtown Kroger, and perhaps we'll see the Vine St. OTR Kroger close. I don't know anything about these stores for sure, I'm just speculating.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

perhaps we'll see the Vine St. OTR Kroger close. I don't know anything about these stores for sure, I'm just speculating.

I remember reading that the Vine Street Kroger is considered a neighborhood store and not a full grocery store.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I remember reading that the Vine Street Kroger is considered a neighborhood store and not a full grocery store.

Sort of like a King Kwik huh, remember those.

[goyguy]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

I remember reading that the Vine Street Kroger is considered a neighborhood store and not a full grocery store.

The widely recognized and correct (if not PC) term is, "Ghetto Kroger."
Accuracy of a map is definitely suspect when it names a stop on Jefferson Ave "UC West Campus."

In all the back-and-forth about UC students and their actual or supposed habits, no one has mentioned the suite hotels that have sprung up around Vine and MLK. Last time I checked, the main convention centers are downtown and none of the big company/bank headquarters are in Corryville. This means thousands of conventioneers and business travelers would welcome the chance to not have to stress over renting a car, trying to find a cab, or dealing with buses going to/from their lodging places. Not when they could walk to the corner and hop on a streetcar. I'm sure the Hampton Inn's and Kingsgate Marriott's management are licking their chops over the potential for enhanced competition with downtown hotels.

As far as potential for future expansion, it's easy to imagine the kicking and screaming that'd ensue if a rail line were proposed which passed through Walnut Hills on the way to Snide Park. So let's not even go there. Clifton Ave with its width and rare major traffic snarls is made for trolley tracks in the median. But the issue is how to approach it from either direction. Topography is the barrier to the south. And part of Ludlow Ave's appeal is that it's narrow and therefore more pedestrian-friendly. It's congested more often than not during the daytime and evening between Clifton Ave and Whitfield, already. So despite there being a broad boulevard which could easily support a streetcar line, I think that any extension of service to Northside would call for a route along Central Parkway. Looking to the west, any spur line that climbed the hill on Glenway Ave from the 8th St Viaduct - no matter how far it extended beyond the summit - would be a huge boost to the fledgling "Incline District" in Price Hill. Southward? It's past time for a rapid rail connection to the airport from downtown.

[austiNati]

Originally Posted by goyguy

The widely recognized and correct (if not PC) term is, "Ghetto Kroger."

Actually, it's better known as Kroghetto. This applies to the Corryville location as well.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Sort of like a King Kwik huh, remember those.

Sure do.

[CinciFan]

Great post goyguy. I hadn't even considered the hotels in uptown. That's a great point.

@Jmecklenborg, do you know if Covington and Newport have made any progress towards planning their own streetcar line? I love the idea of streetcars from N. Kentucky going all the way up to Central Parkway

[jmecklenborg]

I've heard different things from different people. There is definitely no official planning going on, though.

Technically it's going to be a lot harder to get to Covington than to Newport due to the bridge situation. The Suspension Bridge of course used to be the main streetcar bridge with those ramps that led directly into Dixie Terminal. But modern streetcars are much larger than old streetcars and so far exceed the bridge's weight limit. The weight limit caused the Southbank shuttle to be kicked off the bridge for several years until they recently got those hokey tourist trolleys.

The long-term solution is a transit-only bridge or tunnel over or under the river. Such a bridge was studied in the late 1990's as part of OKI's I-71 Light Rail study (a copy is in the Main Library downtown) and would have been a part of the 2002 Metro Moves plan. This bridge was going to be located immediately adjacent to the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge. I never likes this plan because it avoided Covington's downtown and its existing transit center in the garage across from the NKY convention center. A subway tunnel under Walnut or Vine in Cincinnati could shoot directly under the river to Madison in Covington, saving about a mile of distance, and with a station right by the transit center, could allow ALL of TANK's non-express Boone and Campbell County buses to turn around, saving them 3-4 miles per run.

As for Newport the streetcars will almost certainly cross on the L&N Bridge, not the Taylor-Southgate. The later was built in the early 90's but its deck made no provision for future rail, meaning they'd have to tear up at least part of the bridge decking, and possibly reconstruct the whole deck. Meanwhile the L&N has an unused railroad half which they could put streetcars on without much trouble, other than needing to construct an approach.

The other unseen issue is that a bi-state agreement needs to be passed by no less a governing body than the US Congress, meaning in the current political climate, in which Republicans oppose absolutely everything, it's not going to happen. There is an agreement of some kind that was drawn up circa 2001 in anticipation of the Metro Moves vote, which I have not seen, but I'm sure it would be challenged in court by said Republicans. The long-term way to do it is with a bi-state government established by Congress, like what St. Louis has or the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

[CinciFan]

^ Interesting. Thanks for the info. Unfortunately it sounds like a long ways off. I guess the first step should be to combine SORTA and TANK.