UC Loses Control of Student Security to Thugs (Cincinnati, Dayton: dorm, neighborhoods)

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by progmac

flashes1 -- the trouble with your whole proposition is that you are assuming the perps live somewhere they don't live.

in any case, the current trend is for institutions to embrace being part of the city, not wall themselves off from it.

Even if the perps don't live right off-campus, I'm sure they don't live far away. The buffer zone should make them feel unwelcome. The mental roadblock is the key. While perps could drive just as easily to Grandin Road, where the serious money is, they choose to pillage areas closer to their homes---despite the potential bounty being far less than at Grandin---precisely because they feel more comfortable around areas they're familiar with. They don't feel comfortable on Grandin----but they do feel comfortable around the perimeter of UC's campus. That's what needs to change---make them feel like a fish out of water around UC. Here's my example: why are there 10x the panhandlers in downtown after Reds' games than at the Banks...where there's so many more potential donors? Because they are more familiar with downtown. Human nature.

Institutions can embrace the city all they want; however, they better protect their employees and customers---in UC's case, the students. If not, some other institutions will.

I like Mr. Ono, but I think he needs to walk around UC's perimeter at night----to get a feel for what his students are facing.

[Chemistry_Guy]

When I was in graduate school, I sometimes felt that Crosley Tower (The big tall concrete building on UC's campus that looks a bit phallic) was like a prison because I was stuck working in the lab when I wanted to be out having fun. I have also heard that the building is nearing the end of its useful life cycle as an academic building, but that it's rock-like construction has made its demolition very problematic. Possibly UC could kill two birds with one stone (or block of concrete) and re-purpose the building as an actual jail. The inmates could be trained to give recitations for undergraduate lecture classes and TA the labs, saving millions of dollars on graduate stipends. The building is virtually escape-proof: the narrow windows don't open and the faculty offices already resemble prison cells. I see this as a win-win solution for the university and the community.

[CincyIU29]

Originally Posted by flashes1

Even if the perps don't live right off-campus, I'm sure they don't live far away. The buffer zone should make them feel unwelcome. The mental roadblock is the key. While perps could drive just as easily to Grandin Road, where the serious money is, they choose to pillage areas closer to their homes---despite the potential bounty being far less than at Grandin---precisely because they feel more comfortable around areas they're familiar with. They don't feel comfortable on Grandin----but they do feel comfortable around the perimeter of UC's campus. That's what needs to change---make them feel like a fish out of water around UC. Here's my example: why are there 10x the panhandlers in downtown after Reds' games than at the Banks...where there's so many more potential donors? Because they are more familiar with downtown. Human nature.

Institutions can embrace the city all they want; however, they better protect their employees and customers---in UC's case, the students. If not, some other institutions will.

I like Mr. Ono, but I think he needs to walk around UC's perimeter at night----to get a feel for what his students are facing.

Your assumptions rest on a bunch of premises that may very well not be the case and are more representative of socio economic pandering and racially tinged fear mongering than fact.

Ono is one of the most accesible university presidents in the US. He attends student festivities from time to time, I'm sure he is well aware of any threats to campus safety.

UC is an urban university. It should not be walled off from the city to create some bastion of privilege. UC recognizes the importance it has to all members of the area regardless of their location on the socio-economic continuum. While I understand you love Miami, it is an island of wealth with little to no diversity. Not every student or family desires to have themselves or their child educated in such a monolithic environment.

But your premise on the crime in relation to Hyde Park ignores myriad factors that easily dispel this assumption.

First and foremost it is much easier for people from Cincinnati's roughest neighborhoods to get to Clifton than to Hyde Park via metro. It can take 2 hours to get to Hyde Park from LPH for example. Additionally if I'm a criminal it's a lot easier to prey on the kids of the wealthy, out drinking and what not and carrying around cash/valuables than try to orchestrate a break in of a grandin road house, a house that no doubt has a sophisticated security system.

The majority of the people in these "crudy" houses are not criminals. They have drawn the unfortunate card of being poor in the world's most unequal country. Your proposal would displace thousands, cause them extreme economic hardship, increase the burden on city services already struggling in the rough areas of town, and cause these people to resent the university and the students associated with it. It would be an urban disaster. The university should be an instrument to lift people out of poverty and stimulate intellectual thought, not go on a carefree four year vacation that perpetuates the deepening of America's emerging economic segmentation.

[flashes1]

Originally Posted by CincyIU29

Your assumptions rest on a bunch of premises that may very well not be the case and are more representative of socio economic pandering and racially tinged fear mongering than fact.


The majority of the people in these "crudy" houses are not criminals. They have drawn the unfortunate card of being poor in the world's most unequal country.

You've never been to the continents of South America, Africa, or Asia if you believe that. USA is one of most upwardly mobile countries in the world.

[progmac]

Of course the US has vast and problematic income inequality. Though not the worst in the world, it is among the worst within developed countries. As flashes1 points out, we do have great upward mobility in general terms. Not the best in the world, but towards the top of the list for sure.

[Wilson513]

Ono has utterly failed to protect his students. Parents from all over have sent kids here and it is the University's responsibility to assure that safe housing exists for all undergraduates. This they have not done.

I'd feel safer having my kid at Columbia or NYU than at UC.

Most college campuses today are completely and utterly safe. Those of you who have been on college tours know this to be true. UC has next to zero on campus student housing and what they do have has had its share of trouble. Off campus housing is a total mess. Kids were burned to death, robbed, raped, etc. I see UC as marginal as a commuter college, but I would never send a kid there from out of town.

[unusualfire]

Mother of alleged UC-area gang member arrested

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Mother of alleged UC-area gang member arrested

"Released on her own recognizance."

Isn't that a kick in the gut. These criminals know that if a conviction ever ensues, they will plead to the highest offense and all other sentences will be imposed concurrently. So Felicia is out and free to commit crimes with the rest of stolen credit cards her brood of thugs obtained. And, with no risk of additional penalties.

[SWOH]

Very interesting (and quickly heated) debate. I'll add my thoughts.

1. The model flashes1 suggested is rare, but consider the University of Dayton. That's exactly what they did - they bought up all of the surrounding houses, renovated them, and offered them to students. Now over 90% of UD students live in on-campus housing, in a nice neighborhood, where they are still free to throw parties while enjoying the public safety department UD employs to keep unwelcome people out. It's not a bad model, honestly, works well in Dayton. Downside is it creates a more insular atmosphere - a bigger "bubble" than would have existed before, just because it turns the city into campus. That, in turn, might prevent students from wanting to venture into the city as much - but I'll tell you right now that's an unfounded hypothesis, just a simple guess of my understanding of life as a Miami University student.

2. Calling for Ono's resignation because of this is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but students (and parents) knew EXACTLY what they were getting themselves into going in to choosing UC. Heck, I was never allowed to consider UC, despite the fact it had my majors, because of the crime in its neighborhood (I would have fought back, but at the time UC was a "third tier" university in USNWR, and I was only considering first tier universities. Looking back I can see the stupidity.... but 18-yr old me didn't know better).

3. This issue won't deter students from applying. But all universities will have serious issues in future years. The population of children in this country, especially in the midwest, is decreasing. Not rapidly, but some of the largest student class sizes have already past. That's one reason why there are so many more international students on campus now - not only do they pay well, they also keep numbers up. Thus a lot of the reason behind the "new buildings arms race" going on in higher education. Eventually, something's got to give, because all colleges at the moment are just passing the buck. Like Miami's myriad of expansions? 70% debt financed. Who's going to be footing the bill? Idiots who are dumb enough to buy those bonds, and those of us in college now, who will be expected to donate money in our future. I can tell you all right now I won't give back to Miami. If I give money to a college, I'll be donating to one which has used their funds wisely, Sinclair Community College, but I digress....

[t45209]

Originally Posted by progmac

flashes1 -- the trouble with your whole proposition is that you are assuming the perps live somewhere they don't live.

in any case, the current trend is for institutions to embrace being part of the city, not wall themselves off from it.

It's certainly true that criminals aren't necessarily from the neighborhood they terrorize. Oakley and Hyde Park don't have some of the highest theft from auto rates because the people who live on Drake Avenue or Grandin are sneaking around bashing out windows. No, rather if you talk to cops, they'll tell you the thieves travel in from west side, northern Kentucky, just about anywhere...and they don't need easy access on a Metro bus to do it.

The formula is this...thieves have recognized that people in Oakley and Hyde Park are stupid and they leave expensive stuff in their cars and therefore make easy victims.

Likewise, around UC, robbers have identified students as easy victims with money and electronics, and they will continue to prey on them.

Case in point, my neighbor's kid was walking down the street near Short Vine in the daylight and was ON HIS PHONE WITH HIS FAMILY when he was jumped, pistol whipped and robbed. He is about 6'2" and a big strong kid, and two punks still knocked him cold. He had only just started his freshman year and ended up in the hospital.

Certainly, kids can be educated on how not to present easy targets...don't show off the latest iPhone, walk in groups, etc. But, the only thing to really combat this is aggressive policing. Most likely, though, the kind of policing that would be required is the kind that no one is allowed to do anymore. The criminals end up with the upper hand.

And to suggest Ono should resign...another vote for what a silly idea that is. What does it accomplish?...nothing other than establishing a scapegoat.