Which neighborhoods will gentrify in the next ten years? (Cincinnati: rentals, house)

[Tubby513]

Hmmm all this Northside talk reminds me I need to get over there after work tomorrow or an upcoming Wednesday so I can hit up the market. They've got this dude who has his own pigs and his sausages are great!

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

Hehehe. You're getting to know me. Sort of like a Jack Russel Terrier.

I love Cincinnati. I love living here and think its the best place for the value I've seen. Every place I visit that I like as well costs two to three times the cost of Cincinnati. I could like Santa Barbara or Cobble Hill Brooklyn, or Hobe Sound Florida. But not at $2-3mm. And I'd like to see OTR and Northside and even Fairmont as desirable residential neighborhoods. But, I have an acquaintance that moved to Northside in 1990 with the hope that it would be the next Mt. Adams and today she is doing the Citizens on PAtrol thing instead of sitting at the corner cafe sipping a latte.

LOL...Jack Russell? Nahhh...I had you pictured as more the bulldog type

But in your last sentence, you touched on the yin-yang thing about Northside---the folks there alternate between absolutely loving it, and having their heads mounted on swivels due to some crime issues...I go to Norhtside bulletin board all the time, and I subscribe to their e-newsletter...

And wouldn't you know, one of the main concerns there is some crime in certain parts of the neighborhood...makes me feel bad for your friend in the Citizen Patrol, but Northsiders are a hardy bunch---they're not gonna let the knuckleheads take over

[restorationconsultant]

Wilson, while I appreciate your analysis of what "you think" people want in a neighborhood and what drives their economic decisions, I have to say that you are totally out of touch with those people who are the new wave of "urban pioneers' in Cincinnati.

You need to actually cross the Mill Creek valley sometime and look at what is going on , in the westside right now.

I, unlike you, am actually involved in historic Preservation and Restoration and I work with clients and projects everyday. So far this year I have completed 8 full restoration/bid specs for clients who are restoring their homes. Of those 7 were on the west side. I am presently working on 7 more projects specs for clients , all but 1 west side and I have a waiting list of clients right now.

I can only relate what I see. Right now I am working with a Chicago realtor who moved to my neighborhood who bought 3 houses in the Knox Hill neighborhood. One they are living in while they restore and the other two they are working on as well, probably in total spending 1/2 mill plus on the three (yeah Wilson I know a kitchen remodel in Hyde park). Right now I count 12-15 restorations underway in my area. That is about 15-20 percent of our total housing stock. With A good 25 percent of our housing falls into the well maintained or restored catagory so we are almost at the tipping point in Knox Hill. We were at zero restorations in 2008 when we first came there.

We will complete our National Historic District registry nomination this fall and have it ready for submission soon. We anticipate based on feedback it will be accepted. and approved. I have never worked on one that wasn't approved. We are working on an extensive list of properties that will be added to the state historic building inventory database.

We just had a major eyesore , the Irish cliffs apartments, demoed by the city. The other remaining 'problem' apartment building is under our sights. We rae already working on future redevelopment plans.

We are working on long range major redevelopment plan for St Clair Park a 18.4 acre nature preserve in the east end of our neighborhood. 3-5 million in improvements over the next decade.
Victorian Antiquities and Design: Knox Hill Neighborhood Association Developing long range plans for St Clair Park


Our Neighborhood Association is forming the Knox Hill Community Development Corporation and expect to have it up and running in 2011. By receivership and through outright purchase or donation, we are already putting together a list of key properties to restore or stabilize and are already working on funding resources to get help for elderly, many of whom have lived here over 30 years, in our neighborhood to help them fix up their homes.

I've been giving tours to architects, developers and preservationists from across the country all this spring and summer about the development opportunity here.

I spoke at the west side preservation summit this summer and there is a large dedicated group of people working on historic preservation issues. Including saving the Gamble House which has brought national and international attention to Westwood's efforts.

I attended the Receivership Workshop in Camp Washington and took a tour of neighborhood that is making remarkable progress and turnaround.

CPA, Cincinnati Preservation Association has experience a dramatic growth in membership with large numbers of those new members joining from the westside.

The westside has become a favorite destination with out of state preservationists who are moving here because of the wonderful architectural opportunities the west side presents. I have a client from New York who is dropping 1/2 mill on a restoration in Price Hill. Another out of state couple is closing soon on a house in N Fairmount, will spend about 250-300K on its restoration and have bought several lots near them for upscale infill 250-300K range AND they have a proven track record for turning around neighborhoods.

MSD is planning a major project in Fairmount with the daylighting of Lick Run and new greenspace park and makeover of Queen City Blvd.

Major projects in Incline District were recently announced to start the build stages.

Mill Creek valley greenways project is continuing.

Its easy to 'dismiss' one or two things Wilson, but taken as a whole, there is a lot going on. These neighborhoods are already changing.

Wilson, if you were actually "involved" in Preservation and restoration and neighborhood development as I am instead of 'armchair quarterbacking" you might know what is going on and be able to offer a better, more informed, opinion.

Happy to take you on a tour some weekend Wilson. You might learn a thing or two.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Tubby513

Hmmm all this Northside talk reminds me I need to get over there after work tomorrow or an upcoming Wednesday so I can hit up the market. They've got this dude who has his own pigs and his sausages are great!

I'm now addicted to Avril's on West Court. They didn't have great corned beef Tubby, but sausages they have in abundance. (hijack/)

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

Wilson, . . Happy to take you on a tour some weekend Wilson. You might learn a thing or two.

I want to be nice to you, but I think that the term "snarky" was invented so that people would have a way to describe your posts.

I've probably owned a lot more property than you and I guaranty that I have spent a heck of a lot more money renovating than you have. True, I don't have any little Victorian museum pieces I bought for $4000 on my resume, but if you want communicate with me you will have to leave your preconceptions about me at the door. I have also been the hands on attorney for the pioneer developer of OTR and have participated in every aspect of dozens of OTR properties, including my own three properties totaling 20,000 square feet. And, I personally owned property in Mt. Adams when you were in diapers. Which I hope was not recently.

[progmac]

oh boy

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I want to be nice to you, but I think that the term "snarky" was invented so that people would have a way to describe your posts.

I've probably owned a lot more property than you and I guaranty that I have spent a heck of a lot more money renovating than you have. True, I don't have any little Victorian museum pieces I bought for $4000 on my resume, but if you want communicate with me you will have to leave your preconceptions about me at the door. I have also been the hands on attorney for the pioneer developer of OTR and have participated in every aspect of dozens of OTR properties, including my own three properties totaling 20,000 square feet. And, I personally owned property in Mt. Adams when you were in diapers. Which I hope was not recently.

Not to be 'snarky" because I'm sure you've been posting on here longer than me:

Wilson, wilson wilson, Love your points..........except......You are wrong.

First point, I'm well into my early 50's. I bought my first old house as a freshman in college (where I recieved my law degree) so the attorney reference doesn't really impress me, although I'm sure it does some on this board.

Preconceptions? Well lets see, you might want to do the same about me Wilson.

The Knox Hill Cottage puts me at well over 20 homes in the last 30 years or so personally owned and restored by me. A few year back I was restoring 5 homes at once in Indianapolis spending an average of 200K of my own, not borrowed money, on each and it was hectic year. Since I've lived and restored homes in Charleston S.C. and San Francisco. I feel pretty confident that I've paid more for a "fixer" than your house in Hyde Park is worth right now. Hyde Park prices are the 'low rent' district on the coasts.

And yes Wilson, I could fit the entire Knox Hill Cottage, that "little Victorian Museum piece" (whose snarky?)you refer to that I bought for 4000.00, in the 6 car garage of my 14,000 square foot winter house I sold in Boca Raton Florida in 2003. Your "assumption" that all I could afford to buy was a 4000.00 house speaks volumes to what one looks like when they make "assumptions".

I'm here to restore Cincinnati Wilson, not rest on my laurels, or claim to know things about neighborhoods I haven't probably driven through in years. More importantly, I'm not about impressing people with what I
neighborhood I live in, I'm about preserving historic architecture and bringing neighborhoods, that the City of Cincinnati, and people like you, gave up on, a long time ago.

While I consider many of your observations valuable. You are certainly a "treasure trove" of information about how Cincinnati used to be, but, unless you are out there in Neighborhoods RIGHT NOW, restoring them, your 'perceptions' of what is going on in urban neighborhoods in Cincinnati, especially the Westside, is just that, "perception" and not based in reality.

And my offer to take you on a tour still stands.

But I certainly hope when I'm your age, I'm still out there restoring and giving back to Urban neighborhoods that need my help rather than trashing those of us who are out there trying to make a difference.

I predict in 10 years my predictions about Cincinnati Urban Neighborhoods will be far more accurate than yours, maybe we should set a lunch date in 2020?

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

I predict in 10 years my predictions about Cincinnati Urban Neighborhoods will be far more accurate than yours, maybe we should set a lunch date in 2020?

I hope I'm around to have lunch in 2020 other than though through a tube.

[Tubby513]

Originally Posted by wilson1010

I'm now addicted to Avril's on West Court. They didn't have great corned beef Tubby, but sausages they have in abundance. (hijack/)

Ahhhh, I have been meaning to go there for a long time now! Your recent addiction should be enough to scoot me along to check it out. I will have to go pick up some sausages to see how they roll.

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by Tubby513

Ahhhh, I have been meaning to go there for a long time now! Your recent addiction should be enough to scoot me along to check it out. I will have to go pick up some sausages to see how they roll.

[hijack]

And, Tubby, I have to tell you that Avrils has the best sliced roasted turkey I have ever had anywhere. You gotta get some when you are down there. Not some Boarshead crap, its like the day after Thanksgiving only more moist. I could eat it every day. [hijack/]