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Anybody who's in a hospitality job needs to remember whose money puts food on their table. Maybe "Tradd" (pretentious much?) should take an office gig where he wouldn't have to be reminded that tourism is far and away the top industry in his town.
BUT, gotta say...Mr & Mrs Goyguy Sr are both the products of deeply-rooted Carolina families. They were born, raised, and educated in SC's capital - known thereabouts as "Clumbya," or "Cola" for short. Mom lived and worked in Charleston after college while Dad launched his P & G career in Cincinnati, then after they were married she joined him there. Regional chauvinism was far stronger in the '50s than it is today. My entire extended family on both sides continues to be based in the South, yet none of my immediate fam lives there. We're loved no less in the blood-is-thicker-than-water sense but are known as the "Ohio branch" or the "Yankee cousins" - and that's what uttered to our faces. Dad and Mom couldn't do anything about having my sisters' and my accents sound like theirs. But they still could, and did, rear us in the style their background dictated. ("Remember, in Clumbya you answer an older gentleman with 'sir' and an older lady with 'ma'am.' Down South it's considered rude if you don't.")
Manners or lack thereof are just one thing that ticks off Carolinians about tourists and retirees from elsewhere. The pace at which many Northerners operate is annoying, too. Once - in Charleston, no less - as the car we were in approached a signaled intersection we saw that a rattletrap vehicle operated by a teenager had stalled on the cross street. The kid peered under the hood, perplexed, as a couple of other guys hopped out of their own vehicles to help ("he'p") him. One of them brought a tool box. Meanwhile, the motorists with less time on their hands quietly drove around the disabled auto and the rest waited patiently in the lengthening line. Even with my knowledge of the local folkways, this transplanted New Englander ("You said he's in BAWWWSTUN??? What possessed him?!") was astounded. And I said so. When something like this happens in New York, all the person in trouble gets is swear words and honked horns. Suth'na's as a rule are taught to he'p. Noth'na's as a rule are taught to honk and holler, and hurry, and when they visit if not relocate they don't leave their pushiness where they came from.
Every American has team loyalties to an extent, particularly if that team represents the glory of their old alma mater. But Suth'na's take it to a waaaaaay higher level. Countless men (and, in more recent times, women as well) have climbed on board and risen in the ranks at companies solely because of having attended the "right" school and - better still - pledged the "right" Greek-letter excuse for getting tanked every weekend. ("Y'know, young man, this is a mighty impressive transcript. But I should give fair warning that my next interview is with a lady who's in my wife's chapter of Omicron Omicron Omicron from Floorda State. I'm afraid that's two strikes against you, son.") Tailgate parties can last for a week or longer. Disrespecting the home team touches off brawls - and that's among the alumni/ae from forty years ago! School flags fly in front of houses and adorn bumpers at a far higher rate than in places where snow falls in the winter. Rivalries good-natured and otherwise dominate water-cooler and neighborhood conversation. And whether it's USC/Clemson, 'bama/Ole Miss, or Louisville/UK, NO OTHER RIVALRY COUNTS FOR ANYTHING. So it's easy for me to understand why repping OSU would send Charlestonians into "hissy fits." But as real as that is, in the workplace at least the underlying cause of this resentment is equal-opportunity laws. Those dictate that the OOO girl from FSU has to be considered alongside the UF boy who didn't join a frat - even if he's Black. (That's a whole 'nother can o' worms. "Race relations" down South have improved by leaps and bounds, but pretty much on the surface only.) And the laws, needless to say, were enacted in Washington DC with the help of Noth'na's. You got it - those pushy folks with no manners who talk funny put people into office who tell us how to treat our Negroes! This attitude would of course be hotly denied as a rule. However, 60% (Georgia) to 84% (Alabama) of the 2008 Presidential election's White vote going to McCain - the other Old Confederacy states fell in between - tells a different story. Georgia's comparatively low percentage is courtesy of all those transplants in "Alanna," which every Suth'na knows isn't a true Southern city to begin with. goyguy learned that before he could walk.
Right or wrong, all of that stuff I've rambled about feeds into the "go home" mindset. This of course isn't confined to SC (see "Stop the Californication of Oregon.") But no matter where anybody's opinion about any of the above may lie, one thing everyone can agree on is that the population growth is too much too soon. Sunbelt sprawl is out of control. Marshes are drained, farms are plowed under, and woodlands are flattened for one McMansion development or "retirement village" after another. Big-box stores and fast-food franchises clutter ever-wider and ever more congested roads. Golf courses, chain motels, and "office parks" add to the chaos. I for one can't blame Tradd and his followers for reacting like they do, for I can fully grasp where it's coming from whether or not I'm of the same mind on some things.
As for Northeast vs Midwest, I don't have another zillion paragraphs in me to post right now. Let's leave it with the fact that open-minded (not necessarily "liberal" at all) New Yorkers and New Englanders have a lot of laughs at Cincinnati's expense. In particular this is thanks to Burress/Leis/Winburn - not to mention the late Frank Weikel - and their wing nut ways. "OMG! Cincinnati! Where they tried to ban that art exhibit! HAHAHA, good thing you got outta there!"
Last edited by goyguy; 05-23-2010 at 11:20 AM..
Reason: Making less lengthy - LOL, j/k
Uh...by and large that wasn't seen as a bad thing in the South. Far from it. And let's not forget that it was the shenanigans in "Floorda" which helped him scam his way in the first time around.
Speaking as someone who was born in Northern Ohio and live there 44 yrs before leaving I can honestly say I would never move back. Most of the bad things I have read about Ohio are true. The weather is awful. Winters are long, cold, and gray. Spring and fall are not much better. The weather really limits any outdoor activities or hobbies. The constant lack of sunshine is depressing as are all the closed factories. I lost three good jobs there due to major corporations closing their facilties. The people in general are unfriendly even to other locals. I can't say that every city there is bad but the area I am from was bad. Anyone thinking about moving there should really spend some time there before moving there. I wish I would have left there sooner.
Anybody who's in a hospitality job needs to remember whose money puts food on their table. Maybe "Tradd" (pretentious much?) should take an office gig where he wouldn't have to be reminded that tourism is far and away the top industry in his town.
BUT, gotta say...Mr & Mrs Goyguy Sr are both the products of deeply-rooted Carolina families. They were born, raised, and educated in SC's capital - known thereabouts as "Clumbya," or "Cola" for short. Mom lived and worked in Charleston after college while Dad launched his P & G career in Cincinnati, then after they were married she joined him there. Regional chauvinism was far stronger in the '50s than it is today. My entire extended family on both sides continues to be based in the South, yet none of my immediate fam lives there. We're loved no less in the blood-is-thicker-than-water sense but are known as the "Ohio branch" or the "Yankee cousins" - and that's what uttered to our faces. Dad and Mom couldn't do anything about having my sisters' and my accents sound like theirs. But they still could, and did, rear us in the style their background dictated. ("Remember, in Clumbya you answer an older gentleman with 'sir' and an older lady with 'ma'am.' Down South it's considered rude if you don't.")
Manners or lack thereof are just one thing that ticks off Carolinians about tourists and retirees from elsewhere. The pace at which many Northerners operate is annoying, too. Once - in Charleston, no less - as the car we were in approached a signaled intersection we saw that a rattletrap vehicle operated by a teenager had stalled on the cross street. The kid peered under the hood, perplexed, as a couple of other guys hopped out of their own vehicles to help ("he'p") him. One of them brought a tool box. Meanwhile, the motorists with less time on their hands quietly drove around the disabled auto and the rest waited patiently in the lengthening line. Even with my knowledge of the local folkways, this transplanted New Englander ("You said he's in BAWWWSTUN??? What possessed him?!") was astounded. And I said so. When something like this happens in New York, all the person in trouble gets is swear words and honked horns. Suth'na's as a rule are taught to he'p. Noth'na's as a rule are taught to honk and holler, and hurry, and when they visit if not relocate they don't leave their pushiness where they came from.
Every American has team loyalties to an extent, particularly if that team represents the glory of their old alma mater. But Suth'na's take it to a waaaaaay higher level. Countless men (and, in more recent times, women as well) have climbed on board and risen in the ranks at companies solely because of having attended the "right" school and - better still - pledged the "right" Greek-letter excuse for getting tanked every weekend. ("Y'know, young man, this is a mighty impressive transcript. But I should give fair warning that my next interview is with a lady who's in my wife's chapter of Omicron Omicron Omicron from Floorda State. I'm afraid that's two strikes against you, son.") Tailgate parties can last for a week or longer. Disrespecting the home team touches off brawls - and that's among the alumni/ae from forty years ago! School flags fly in front of houses and adorn bumpers at a far higher rate than in places where snow falls in the winter. Rivalries good-natured and otherwise dominate water-cooler and neighborhood conversation. And whether it's USC/Clemson, 'bama/Ole Miss, or Louisville/UK, NO OTHER RIVALRY COUNTS FOR ANYTHING. So it's easy for me to understand why repping OSU would send Charlestonians into "hissy fits." But as real as that is, in the workplace at least the underlying cause of this resentment is equal-opportunity laws. Those dictate that the OOO girl from FSU has to be considered alongside the UF boy who didn't join a frat - even if he's Black. (That's a whole 'nother can o' worms. "Race relations" down South have improved by leaps and bounds, but pretty much on the surface only.) And the laws, needless to say, were enacted in Washington DC with the help of Noth'na's. You got it - those pushy folks with no manners who talk funny put people into office who tell us how to treat our Negroes! This attitude would of course be hotly denied as a rule. However, 60% (Georgia) to 84% (Alabama) of the 2008 Presidential election's White vote going to McCain - the other Old Confederacy states fell in between - tells a different story. Georgia's comparatively low percentage is courtesy of all those transplants in "Alanna," which every Suth'na knows isn't a true Southern city to begin with. goyguy learned that before he could walk.
Right or wrong, all of that stuff I've rambled about feeds into the "go home" mindset. This of course isn't confined to SC (see "Stop the Californication of Oregon.") But no matter where anybody's opinion about any of the above may lie, one thing everyone can agree on is that the population growth is too much too soon. Sunbelt sprawl is out of control. Marshes are drained, farms are plowed under, and woodlands are flattened for one McMansion development or "retirement village" after another. Big-box stores and fast-food franchises clutter ever-wider and ever more congested roads. Golf courses, chain motels, and "office parks" add to the chaos. I for one can't blame Tradd and his followers for reacting like they do, for I can fully grasp where it's coming from whether or not I'm of the same mind on some things.
As for Northeast vs Midwest, I don't have another zillion paragraphs in me to post right now. Let's leave it with the fact that open-minded (not necessarily "liberal" at all) New Yorkers and New Englanders have a lot of laughs at Cincinnati's expense. In particular this is thanks to Burress/Leis/Winburn - not to mention the late Frank Weikel - and their wing nut ways. "OMG! Cincinnati! Where they tried to ban that art exhibit! HAHAHA, good thing you got outta there!"
That was a looooong post, but I found it interesting because I knew exactly what you were talking about in most of it. Small world! My parents were born and raised in the Columbia metro area and migrated up to CT directly after high school in 1979, and have been up there ever since.
My family and I used to go down to SC in the summers and visit family back in "Clumbya" and "Chahston." I used to hear the "yankee cousin" jokes too. They used to make fun of my accent and say I sounded "proper." If anyone should have been making fun of accents, it should have been me. The "yankee cousins" were always outnumbered by our southern family so there wasn't much we could do.
You're right on with the comments about USC football. You see a lot more Gamecock paraphernalia down there than Buckeye stuff you see up here. Shirts that read, "We Love Our *****," "Suck Our *****," "***** Rule" are pretty common in Columbia. Don't even get me started on SEC tailgating. I've had some crazy and fun experiences down there. I was suprised at how beautiful the women were too(that's another story though). I truly think the USC/Clemson rivalry might be just as big, if not bigger than the Michigan/ Ohio State rivalry. We went down to Columbia for the USC/Clemson game a couple years ago and before we could even cross the SC border from NC, we started seeing cars decked with Clemson magnets and flags all over the place. By the time we got down near Newberry, black and maroon was all you could see. It gets pretty crazy when the LSU fans come to town also. The SEC has some very loyal and die-hard fans. The Big Ten has them too but not on the same level as SEC. I saw a replica newborn cheerleading outfit that read, "My First ****" on it. Overall, the Big Ten lacks the excitement of the SEC. I even prefer watching ACC before Big Ten. Enough with the football talk though.
I'm only in my 20s, but from what I hear, race relations have improved in SC, but you're right, it's only at the surface. There was an 'uproar' in December about a black guy running for mayor. There was graffiti found on a wall reading, 'No n****r mayor.' People call Cincinnati a conservative city, which I agree on and also a racist city, which I think is highly overblown; I doubt an incident like that would occur here. There are many whites here that disagree with the way Mallory is running the city, but they don't blame it on him being black. Usually when I hear someone say they don't like the way he runs the city, they present a legitimate and unbiased opinion as to why they don't like him (which I can highly respect.) I think if Cincinnati was located in SC, a lot of the locals would have the attitude of "This black man (or even the N word) is ruining our city."
Another thing too, while areas in SC aren't as segregated as most cities in Ohio (only due to history), people still find ways to segregate themselves just as much. I don't know how familiar you are with Columbia, but Columbia has it's so called "black mall" and "white mall." The black mall being the declining Columbia Mall (I think) and the white mall being Columbiana Centre, over on Harbison Ave (nice area BTW!)
I don't want to make this too long, but to wrap it up, it baffles me how people down in SC can think of Ohio as a 'hick state' or a state with 'nothing' in it. Ohio is actually an urban state (rounding up the top 10, if I remember correctly), with big cities, and 'urban' cities. SC is non of the above: no big cities, mainly rural, and the only city close to being urban is Charleston. While Greenville is nice, it's not urban. To me Greenville is the perfect city for suburbanites; full of sterile subdivisons encumbered with McMansions and red clay everywhere. I do notice, whenever I go down there, and travel to any part of the state, I don't have to look very hard or far to find an Ohio license plate.
Two accent stories: [You can always tell a Suth'na or the child of one b/c everything reminds them of a story...] At a gathering of the tribes in Clumbya, a cousin tried to kid me by saying she'd bought a paperback called "How To Talk Southern" and that my sisters and I should read it. She went on to remark that one thing puzzled her: "How'd they get two syllables out of the word spelled g-r-ah-t-s?" I retorted, "Easy! The first syllable is 'gree' and the second is 'yuts'!" Everybody burst out laughing and I moved in for the kill with, "Sounds like I need to teach YOU!"
This next tale illustrates not only how regional twangs still aren't easily understood even as they get watered down and the lingo gets increasingly homogenized, but also the real animosity toward Noth'nas that's out there. During yet another gathering of the tribes, a carload of us rolled up to a fast-food place for lunch. By this time one of my sisters had gotten married to a Vermonter, who needs translation assistance Down South every bit as much as he does on trips to Japan. (LOL!) We purposely let the elders - and/or Carolina-born - order first, then the "bilingual" Cincinnatians, and then the BIL. The natives were taken care of quickly. So were my sibs and I, since we were able to comprehend what the counter workers were saying and knew enough to at least slow down our verbal delivery so they could comprehend us in turn. Last at bat was the BIL. "An/whut/kin/ah/git/fer/yew/today/sur, wudju/lak/ta/trah/wunnar/spayshuls?" "What?!" When all of us had had our plastic trays filled and were headed for a table, we were "tickled" to see how the employees had reacted to the multicultural (South/Border State/North) family they'd just served. They didn't know what to make of us. But things got uglier minutes later. A screech of tires in the parking lot had everyone peering out the windows as a van emblazoned with the name of a New York college arrived. Some fifteen adolescents and a few older adults disembarked, obviously en route to an athletic event or on a road trip to the beach. It's no exaggeration to say that the faces of everyone in the restaurant (except at our table) grew hard and cold. The clamoring group, whose only offense was being from New York, was treated to having daggers stared at them as they strolled in. The counter workers, who'd extended Suth'n hospitality to us and had done no worse than none-too-discreetly roll eyes and giggle at my hapless BIL, were all business with their latest guests. It was bad enough to make us squirm. What if the Yankee and the Cincinnatians hadn't had Suth'nas to give them street cred? Never mind if we weren't Caucasian.
In Boston, neighbors for several years in my apartment house were a multicultural AA couple - multicultural in that she was a local gal and he'd been raised in Miami. Soon after I moved in, I was yakking away with them both when the lady said, "Hey, wait a minute! You understood what he just said? I didn't catch a word of it!" We guys thought that was hilarious; she complained to me that she had to have him repeat himself fairly often. "Bill" did have a Southern accent as thick as molasses, complete with Black-specific inflections, but so did a fair number of people I grew up among in Cincinnati. We became fast friends due in part to the inherent humor of a Ohio Caucasian's readily picking up on what left the mouth of a "person of color" from Florida. Soon it'd occur somewhat frequently that I'd be outside or at home when Bill's other half would run up to me or knock on my door and yell, "I need an interpreter!"
There's been lots to read through again this time, I know. But my belief is that accent differences pit different regions against each other right along with political and behavioral distinctions. TV has done a lot to hold up Midwestern/Southern speech to ridicule with shows like "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Gomer Pyle, USMC," to name but two widely-viewed programs. In the popular imagination, "drawl" came to equal "hayseed." Many were the times I'd be dragged along grocery or clothes or whatever shopping by my parents, when they'd be accosted or have a clerk condescend to them. "Would you mind saying that again, just so I could hear how it sounds? I love how you Southern people talk." They'd grin and bear it. But not everyone's so forgiving. The hostility at the fast-food restaurant was probably born from years of being mocked and laughed at. ("Did you hear her say 'y'all,' I was like o'm'GAWD, that's too funny!") I've personally been told that I "sound like a hick" and that I need to do something to correct pronunciations or quit saying certain stuff. For some folks (Does that make me sound like a hick, should I stop using that word) only a few Ohioans' snickers at their expense turns them off to the entire state. It's an offense right up there with not recognizing "true" college-football rivalries, daring to not be conversative if not "Tea Party," not minding one's manners, or leaning on the horn at a kid in a dead jalopy instead of jumping out to he'p.
It seems that a lot of people outside of the region view Ohioans as a bunch of beer guzzling hillbillies, white-trash, and insane Buckeye fans.
Nah, not really.
I grew up in the backwoods of SC. The perception of Ohioans is not that of beer-guzzling white trash. It is actually the opposite, since we see ourselves as such.
Ohio and its transplants are seen as moderately affluent, educated, somewhat politically correct, practical, bland and boring. I'm not saying that is a fair shake, but we're talking about stereotypes here.
You're right that there's something about Ohio State that really grates on fans of SEC football. Not Michigan or Penn State, just the Buckeyes.
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Maybe "Tradd" (pretentious much?) should take an office gig where he wouldn't have to be reminded that tourism is far and away the top industry in his town.
Let's leave it with the fact that open-minded (not necessarily "liberal" at all) New Yorkers and New Englanders have a lot of laughs at Cincinnati's expense. In particular this is thanks to Burress/Leis/Winburn - not to mention the late Frank Weikel - and their wing nut ways. "OMG! Cincinnati! Where they tried to ban that art exhibit! HAHAHA, good thing you got outta there!"
.
When all of us had had our plastic trays filled and were headed for a table, we were "tickled" to see how the employees had reacted to the multicultural (South/Border State/North) family they'd just served. They didn't know what to make of us. 
But things got uglier minutes later. A screech of tires in the parking lot had everyone peering out the windows as a van emblazoned with the name of a New York college arrived. Some fifteen adolescents and a few older adults disembarked, obviously en route to an athletic event or on a road trip to the beach. It's no exaggeration to say that the faces of everyone in the restaurant (except at our table) grew hard and cold. The clamoring group, whose only offense was being from New York, was treated to having daggers stared at them as they strolled in. The counter workers, who'd extended Suth'n hospitality to us and had done no worse than none-too-discreetly roll eyes and giggle at my hapless BIL, were all business with their latest guests. It was bad enough to make us squirm. What if the Yankee and the Cincinnatians hadn't had Suth'nas to give them street cred? Never mind if we weren't Caucasian. 
But my belief is that accent differences pit different regions against each other right along with political and behavioral distinctions. TV has done a lot to hold up Midwestern/Southern speech to ridicule with shows like "The Beverly Hillbillies" and "Gomer Pyle, USMC," to name but two widely-viewed programs. In the popular imagination, "drawl" came to equal "hayseed." Many were the times I'd be dragged along grocery or clothes or whatever shopping by my parents, when they'd be accosted or have a clerk condescend to them. "Would you mind saying that again, just so I could hear how it sounds? I love how you Southern people talk." They'd grin and bear it. But not everyone's so forgiving. The hostility at the fast-food restaurant was probably born from years of being mocked and laughed at. ("Did you hear her say 'y'all,' I was like o'm'GAWD, that's too funny!") I've personally been told that I "sound like a hick" and that I need to do something to correct pronunciations or quit saying certain stuff. For some folks (Does that make me sound like a hick, should I stop using that word) only a few Ohioans' snickers at their expense turns them off to the entire state. It's an offense right up there with not recognizing "true" college-football rivalries, daring to not be conversative if not "Tea Party," not minding one's manners, or leaning on the horn at a kid in a dead jalopy instead of jumping out to he'p.
