Indianapolis vs Columbus vs Cincinnati (live, cost, state, better)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by midwest1

And heck, I even feel that Dayton will start to grow again and not SUX at all, further cementing Cincinnati as the vibrant heart of a renewed vibrant region....

I think you're probably overstating Cincinnati's recovery pace. It's improving, but there are other cities improving faster nearby and in the Midwest.

[midwest1]

Originally Posted by natininja

midwest1 knows what's up. To my knowledge, he is not and has never been a Cincinnati resident (is that right?), but has been around the block enough times to spot the indicators and intangibles.

I feel very lucky to have been born a Cincinnatian, for otherwise I might not be sitting in a front-row seat watching the birth of the boom that's getting ready to go off.

True, I am from Chicago, but have had the pleasure of visiting Cincinnati numerous times. There is in my opinion, no city better poised to vault into the major leagues like Cincinnati.

It doesn't matter what the stats are at this point, Cincinnati is clearly laying the foundations for a paradigm shift amongst the second tier cities of the eastern half of the country.

Ridiculous growth of the urban core population throughout the "Great Recession", and absolutely no sign of this trend ever ending in or lifetime, this is not just a "trend" as it might be in cities that never knew Cincy's historic urbanity. For such a city to RE-embrace its historic core with such totality and speed is virtually unprecedented in American history.

I tend to be a futurist, and trust me, what I am writing here will be standard knowledge in 5 years time. I see nothing that will stop Cincinnati's rise. The virtuous cycle has already started. Nearby metros are great, but none will have the domestic and even international tourism pull of a hilly Cincy on the Ohio River with a new streetcar chugging through Over-The-Rhine to Findlay Market and on. Its destiny.

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by midwest1

All three cities are great.....but it seems to me that Cincinnati is on the launch pad for something really really big.....the engines have fired and the rocket is about to take off. Here's a prediction, Cincy will grow at faster rates than Indy-C-bus for decades. Call it a gut instinct, but I'd put some money on it. Right place, right time, right feel, right trajectory....and considering its location within the eastern half of the US, success will only breed more success which will feed upon itself. The Washington DC of the next few decades..border cities sometimes have an advantage......

A gust instinct? You're basing all of your hypothesis on absolutely nothing. Right place right time and right feel? Are you serious?

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by midwest1

True, I am from Chicago, but have had the pleasure of visiting Cincinnati numerous times. There is in my opinion, no city better poised to vault into the major leagues like Cincinnati.

It doesn't matter what the stats are at this point, Cincinnati is clearly laying the foundations for a paradigm shift amongst the second tier cities of the eastern half of the country.

Ridiculous growth of the urban core population throughout the "Great Recession", and absolutely no sign of this trend ever ending in or lifetime, this is not just a "trend" as it might be in cities that never knew Cincy's historic urbanity. For such a city to RE-embrace its historic core with such totality and speed is virtually unprecedented in American history.

I tend to be a futurist, and trust me, what I am writing here will be standard knowledge in 5 years time. I see nothing that will stop Cincinnati's rise. The virtuous cycle has already started. Nearby metros are great, but none will have the domestic and even international tourism pull of a hilly Cincy on the Ohio River with a new streetcar chugging through Over-The-Rhine to Findlay Market and on. Its destiny.

There aren't too many major US cities not big on the revitalization of the urban core kick. They are all doing it and some longer than others. A lot of stiff competition as cities pour tax money into these endeavors trying to be the next best thing since the discovery of water. I know you want to think Cincy is somehow being a revolutionary here but the fact remains, it isn't. It's doing the same thing as everyone else but might be slightly behind in that regard. Cincy has the river which is definitely a plus and the trolley system should add as well (dependent upon the actual backlash from other parts of the city that got pushed by the wayside for more important needs).

Don't know much about CBus public transportation other than it's just as anemic as Indianapolis. New transportation center will be opening up just south of the City County Building in a few years and the IndyConnect plan passed the house of representatives. The notoriously conservative Senate will be a challenge. If passed, the citizens get to vote on it and has a good chance of passing since rural dwellers were dropped from the equation. Some small mumblings about expanding the People Mover (It currently only goes between the hospitals and IUPUI) further into the core of downtown. Revitalization of the entire SE Quad anchored by CityWay and the NW Quad anchored by 16 Tech, IUPUI and the New Wishard. Everyone's doing it. What would be beneficial to both cities since they are pretty darn close (used to take me a little over an hour to hit Cincy when I lived on the SE side of Indy) would be continued commuter service between the two. A lot of people from Indy take weekend trips to Cincy and a lot of people from Cincy take weekend trips to Indy. Would be win-win.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I think you're probably overstating Cincinnati's recovery pace. It's improving, but there are other cities improving faster nearby and in the Midwest.

None of the other nearby cities have near the tools to work with that Cincinnati does. And I agree with midwest1 that Dayton will tag along for the ride with Cincy.

[cali3448893]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I think you're probably overstating Cincinnati's recovery pace. It's improving, but there are other cities improving faster nearby and in the Midwest.

What cities are improving faster than a city that downtown was once full of poverty and abandon buildings, lots of crime, and nearly not as much as they do now, also how about the ghost town we were once downtown. Now Cincinnati is improving very quickly between the
banks(condos, office, restaurants, entertainment
New Casino(will be open in 4 days)
Tons of new restaurants
Streetcar system
lower crime
Washington park renovation
new hotel proposed
grocery store and lofts proposed
over 13,000 people now live downtown, because of all the condos and lofts opening and they fill right up
smale park
queen city square
dunnhuby headquarters
....geez i know i missing like five that are really important, but seriously Columbus and Cleveland are improving just as fast if not slower.

[natininja]

Indy and Cbus do not have nationally significant historic districts on par with the French Quarter. They do not have the natural scenery which make so many postcard image angles (which come with houses with windows with those images as views). They don't have so many lovable cultural quirks like culinary specialties, flying pigs, or many neighborhoods that feel like mini-cities unto themselves.

"If I wanted to see historic buildings, I'd go to Europe." But Europe does not have any American frontier river cities. No other city has Cincinnati's collection of architecture, which is a product of a unique time in a unique place, much of it built in what was the next big American city. Indy and Cbus were never the flagship American city west of the eastern seaboard.

History matters. Built environment matters. Natural environment matters. Cultural uniqueness matters.

Indy and Cbus will never have a leg-up on Cincy in those areas. Even though those two cities are currently ahead of Cincy in revitalization, they will inevitably hit a growth asymptote which Cincy will fly past.

[msamhunter]

Originally Posted by natininja

Indy and Cbus do not have nationally significant historic districts on par with the French Quarter. They do not have the natural scenery which make so many postcard image angles (which come with houses with windows with those images as views). They don't have so many lovable cultural quirks like culinary specialties, flying pigs, or many neighborhoods that feel like mini-cities unto themselves.

"If I wanted to see historic buildings, I'd go to Europe." But Europe does not have any American frontier river cities. No other city has Cincinnati's collection of architecture, which is a product of a unique time in a unique place, much of it built in what was the next big American city. Indy and Cbus were never the flagship American city west of the eastern seaboard.

History matters. Built environment matters. Natural environment matters. Cultural uniqueness matters.

Indy and Cbus will never have a leg-up on Cincy in those areas. Even though those two cities are currently ahead of Cincy in revitalization, they will inevitably hit a growth asymptote which Cincy will fly past.

And that's based off of what methodology?

If the person u responded to doesn't equate historic buildings as a factor, you can't say he's wrong as it's his personal choice. Op may value the qiality of the residents of the neighborhood over the housing stock. You can jave the most historic house in a great hood and have crappy neighbors or neighbors you don't even know their names. Great looking hood but still low quality due to the neighbors. I prefer both but put more emphasis on the actual people as they make the neighborhood.

[wh15395]

This love affair you people are having with Cincy is ridiculous. Yes, it's scenery is beautiful, it has a cool/more urban vibe, and it has more historic buildings. But my God, it really isn't that great. You all talk about how Downtown is booming, but have you seen downtown Indy or Columbus. They're kind of booming too and already leaps ahead of Cincy (well at least downtown Indy). I haven't been to downtown Cbus in a couple years, but I know they've had a lot of recent development too. Each of these cities have different qualities that make one better than the other. I just don't see how Cincy is suddenly seen as some beacon of hope or a shining star in the Midwest. I think all large Midwestern cities in general seem to be having similar growth patterns.

[midwest1]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

A gust instinct? You're basing all of your hypothesis on absolutely nothing. Right place right time and right feel? Are you serious?

Do you have any idea what's going on in Cincinnati? Get back to me in 5 years. That city has been consistently the most underrated city in the country for decades. What is occurring in its urban core and Over-The-Rhine districts is not just building some new condo districts that you may see in other cities. It is a rebirth of one of the crown jewels of America's urban history. Its appeal will only continue to grow. The two cities we are comparing it to are great and have the benefit of being state capitals, but they in no way can claim to be in the same league of Cincinnati when it comes to unique local culture, historic acrhitecture, corporate heavyweights.


And if it details you want, it's details you'll get...almost $6,000,000,000 in recently completed, current or proposed prrojects

2012 was a good year in Cincinnati. Here is a quick rundown:

Completed 2012
Academy of Multilingual Immersion Studies…Bond Hill…$11,582,753
The Banks (Phase 1)…Downtown…$91,000,000
Moerlein Lager House…Downtown…$10,000,000
Smale Riverfront Park (Phase 1)…Downtown…$120,000,000
21C Hotel…Downtown…$56,000,000
Federal Reserve Residential Conversion…Downtown…$19,000,000
The Edge…Downtown…$10,000,000
Washington Park…Over-the-Rhine…$48,000,000
North Rhine Heights…Over-the-Rhine…$14,000,000
Paint Building…Over-the-Rhine…$4,100,000
City Home (Phase 2)…Over-the-Rhine…$2,160,000
Chase School…Northside…$12,443,638
Euclid Square Apartments…Corryville…$5,000,000
Group Health Associates Medical Office Building…Clifton…$27,000,000
The Verona at Eden Park…Walnut Hills…$10,000,000
Kao Brands Headquarters Renovation…Camp Washington…$7,900,000
Elberon…Price Hill…$7,400,000
MetroWest Commerce Park…Lower Price Hill…$25,000,000
Olyer Community Learning Center Renovation…Lower Price Hill…$20,000,000
Westwood School Renovation…Westwood…$14,433,731
Mt. Washington School Renovation…Mt. Washington…$14,894,869
Woodford Paideia Academy…Kennedy Heights…$13,666,102

Under Construction/ Pre-Development
Maisonette…..Downtown…..$14,600,000
Westfalen 2…..Over-the-Rhine…..$7,000,000
15th and Republic…..Over-the-Rhine…..$4,300,000
Paint Building…..Over-the-Rhine…..$4,100,000
15th and Race Church…..Over-the-Rhine…..$4,000,000
13th and Republic…..Over-the-Rhine…..$3,000,000
Nicolay…..Over-the-Rhine…..$2,400,000
Bakery Lofts…..Over-the-Rhine…..$2,300,000
Park Haus…..Over-the-Rhine…..$2,300,000
Parvis 2…..Over-the-Rhine…..$1,700,000
1401 Elm (Hummel)…..Over-the-Rhine…..$1,500,000
Winton Montessori School…..Northside…..$16,639,331
Vine Street Flats…..Corryville…..$5,000,000
U Square @ The Loop…..Clifton Heights…..$78,000,000
The Views on Vine (Schiel School site)…..Corryville…..$20,000,000
Oakley Station…..Oakley…..$26,700,000
Medpace Research Laboratory…..Madisonville…..$7,500,000
Medpace Office Building…..Madisonville…..$3,600,000
MetroWest Commerce Park…..Lower Price Hill…..$25,000,000
Olyer Community Learning Center Renovation…..Lower Price Hill…..$20,000,000
DHL Airport Expansion…..Hebron…..$47,000,000
Netherland Plaza Hotel Renovation…$10,000,000
Mercer Commons…..Over-the-Rhine…..$59,000,000
Rothenburg Preperatory Academy…..Over-the-Rhine…..$16,907,400
Rhinehaus…$1,000,000
Bakery Lofts…$2,350,000
15th and Republic…$4,800,000
Horseshoe Casino…..Pendleton…..$400,000,000
UC Morgens Hall Renovation…$5,000,000
Art Academy Building Renovation…..Mt. Adams…..$17,900,000
Rookwood Exchange…..Norwood…..$100,000,000
Aiken High School…..College Hill…..$29,304,753
Western Hills/Dater High School Renovation…..Westwood…..$51,716,341
Saylor Park School Renovation…..Saylor Park…..$13,000,000
Kennedy Heights Cultural Center…..Kennedy Heights…..$3,000,000
Silverton Paideia Academy…..Silverton…..$14,007,563
Cincinnati Streetcar…..Downtown…..$110,000,000
Cincinnatian Hotel Renovations…$20,000,000
University of Cincinnati Kettering Lab Renovation…..University Heights…..$5,000,000
Walnut Hills High School Renovation…..Evanston…..$56,241,429
Vue 180…..Newport…..$15,600,000
Christ Hospital Expansion…..Mount Auburn…..$265,000,000
Keystone Parke…..Evanston…..$100,000,000


Imminent
The Banks (Phase 2)…..2013…..Downtown…..$600,000,000
Hyatt Regency Renovation..…2013…..Downtown…..$17,000,000
Dunnhumby Headquarters…..Downtown….. $100,000,000


Proposed
Stetson Homes…..Corryville…..$80,000,000
Uptown Crossings…..University Heights…..$11,000,000
309 Vine (PNC Tower Annex)…..Downtown…..$15,000,000
7th and Culvert Parking Garage…..Downtown…..$20,000,000
Holiday Inn & Suites…..Downtown…..$14,000,000
308-316 Main…..Downtown…..$9,010,659
Central Parkway YMCA Redevelopment…..Over-the-Rhine…..$27,000,000
St. Paulus Church…..Over-the-Rhine…..$8,200,000
1405-07 Republic Street…..Over-the-Rhine…..$3,400,000
1500-06 Elm Street…..Over-the-Rhine…..$3,600,000
Emmanuel Building Conversion…..Over-the-Rhine…..$4,000,000
Abington Flats…..Over-the-Rhine…..$3,147,033
521-523 E. 12th Street…..Over-the-Rhine…..$1,242,270
Pendleton Apartments…..Pendleton…..$16,116,250
Sam Adams Brewery Expansion…..West End…..$3,600,000
Metro Uptown Transit District…..University Heights…..$6,900,000
Old St. George Boutique Hotel…..Clifton Heights…..$22,000,000
961-975 E. McMillan Street…..$8,000,000
Eden Park Pump Station Microbrewery…..$5,200,000
Meyer Tool Expansion…..Camp Washington…..$3,500,000
Oakley Lofts…..Oakley…..$6,000,000
Delta Flats…..Columbia Tusculum…..$8,000,000
Rough Brother's Headquarters…..Bond Hill…..$4,000,000
St. Michael Church/School Renovation…..Lower Price Hill…..$85,000,000
Enquirer Building Renovation (Hotel)…..Downtown…..$29,000,000
Music Hall Renovation…..Over-the-Rhine…..$165,000,000
Xavier Square (Phase 1)…..Evanston…..$50,000,000
Lytle Park Renovation…..Downtown…..$6,000,000
Haddon Hall Renovation…..Avondale…..$12,000,000
Childrens Hospital Tower…..Avondale…..$180,000,000
The Banks (Additional Phases)…..Downtown…..$1,809,000,000
Xavier Square (Phase 2)…..Evanston…..$50,000,000
University of Cincinnati Law School…..University Heights…..$70,000,000
Green and Vine…..Over-the-Rhine…..$1,500,000
308-316 Main Street…..Downtown…..$9,000,000
Anna Louise Inn Renovation…..Downtown…..$12,400,000
Homeless to Homes Project…..???.....$30,000,000
Dennison Hotel (Ironworks Apartments)…..Downtown…..$9,600,000
Meiner Flats…..Over-the-Rhine…..$11,000,000
Hotel Covington…..Covington…..$25,000,000
Gateway Community and Technical College…..Covington…..$81,500,000
Former SCPA Redevelopment…..Pendleton…..???
580 Building Residential Conversion…..Downtown…..???
Fountain Place Residential Tower…..Downtown…..???
Terrace Plaza Residential Conversion…..Downtown…..???
Ingalls Building Residential Conversion…..Downtown…..???


Totals
Cost: $5,718,664,122
Office/Retail Space: 5,539,864 sq. ft.
Condos: 361+
Apartments: 4,009+
New/Renovated Hotel Rooms: 1,550+