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I think you were being a huge homer because you were talking about the downtowns of Augusta and Columbus and said you'd still choose those two over Memphis and Knoxville (although the latter two have superior downtowns). You weren't talking about economic growth within that context. And even so, what are you basing your projections about future economic activity on? Are you even aware of what's going on in the TN cities as far as that goes in order to come to an objective conclusion?
I have been to Memphis and Knoxville.They are nice ,but for different reasons overall I would choose other places.They are personal and I rather not say.North Carolina,Virginia,Florida,Texas, are the ONLY states in the South I would ever consider(or have)live in.I dont have the greatest desire to live anywhere in Tennessee.I really cant put my finger on why.I don't mean to be insulting,its just a preference.
Based on what I have read and seen about these places,Augusta and Columbus have some colossal projects going on.Infrastructure,population projections,Are you aware of what is going on in Knoxville or Memphis,Please enlighten me.I think great things about Chattanooga.I like it a lot and if I did move anywhere in TN,that would be an easy choice for me.
Well I thought we were comparing Memphis and Knoxville to Augusta and Columbus? Even so, Savannah is a different kind of city and, of course, Memphis is several times larger, has more amenities, a larger economy, etc. "Better" is very subjective. Just as Savannah can't match the beauty of Savannah, Savannah can't match the economy of Memphis or the musical legacy of Memphis or the amenities of Memphis.
The amenities of Memphis?Like what?You act like Memphis is miles ahead of these cities.Only amenity I give them credit for is a trolley that they plan on expanding.
I do know that Savannah has a larger tourism economy.While its subjective,you rarely hear anyone talk about the beauty of Memphis.
I dont believe I ever said otherwise.Again larger does not mean better.A diversified economy is better than a one trick pony.
You seem to forget that Georgia has two major ports that happen to be among the fastest growing in the U.S.
Military bases are huge components of the economy of GA that TN just does not have.Not to mention I already gave the GDP with Nashville and Atlanta for each state.Even without the 28 counties that make up the Atlanta MSA.Tennessee just beats GA in GDP.(Although I did say its compare Atlanta city only).Cities like Marietta,Gainesville and many larger economic cities are left out.
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Los Angeles and Long Beach — the top two ports in the U.S. — was flat in 2007, while the Port of Savannah saw an increase of 20.6%, leapfrogging over the Ports of Vancouver and Oakland to become the fourth largest in the nation, just behind the Port of New York/New Jersey
If that's the case, then you have to say that Atlanta "barely measures up or 'bests'" Nashville and Memphis. Atlanta's metro GDP per capita is $44,124. Nashville's is $43,797. Atlanta only has Nashville and Memphis beat by less than $1000, but metro Atlanta is over three times as large as Nashville and Memphis. In contrast, Chattanooga has a $5000 advantage over Augusta and their metros are roughly the same size. Knoxville's figure is about $4000 more than Savannah, but it's metro is only about twice Savannah's size. To give Columbus some credit, it does well considering its size but otherwise, I'd give the edge to the TN cities. I'd agree with that actually.In fact I believe Birmingham's is even higher.Does that make Birmingham a completive place?
Are you saying that you don't agree that scenery, history, and culture are subjective criteria? I wasn't arguing that TN was superior in those categories. I was merely saying that these things are subject to personal preference. I prefer the coast to the mountains myself, but for someone who prefers the mountains to the coast, I can see where they'd lean more towards TN. Someone who likes historic, urban colonial cities would probably prefer GA due to Savannah, but someone who's into historic musical legacies with Southern roots would more than likely go for TN.
Sorry to say, but I don't think TN without Nashville is the best comparison at all for a GA without Atlanta. I think LA without New Orleans or AL without Birmingham are much better comparisons.
They are subjective but sometime its just no contest.What culture and historical things that TN has that GA does not?I don't mean specifics but things that are obviously different.
Job creation economic impact,is what I base my projections on.Columbus expects 30000 new employee at Ft.Benning due to BRAC and other government projects.Also Augusta with the NSA moved a major division there with 1000 jobs at Ft.Gordon.Savannah River Site and the Medical College of Georgia.
Have you really been to LA?From Shreveport to Baton Rouge cities are in need of serious attention.Low education standards that have hardly risen,poor economic growth,infrastructure(especially roads)in bad need of upgrading.
Baton Rouge is the only city in LA that is really standing out thanks to Katrina.
I know some people dont agree but I specifically said "city only".If you dont like the parameters of the thread,start a new one.I did it that way because otherwise it would be a dead thread.So all the arguments that are brought up with acknowledging the MSA like I asked for consideration are without basis for discussing in this thread.
Its not like I cant see for myself that without all of Atlanta GDP wise TN would of course be more prominent.My whole discussion for this thread was to garner interest for each side as to why based on the guidelines would be more significant.Things like educational attainment(which I still hear no one dispute),poverty,GDP,income parity,housing,culture,history ,etc..make a place more popular than not.
The difference, though, is that Macon never developed a culture that revolves around music or was never the breeding ground for developing musical genres. Where is the Beale Street, Staxx Records, Grand Ole Opry, and Lower Broadway in Macon? Memphis and Nashville are known as epicenters of certain genres of music (blues, rock n' roll, country). That's not true of Macon or Albany or Augusta. Athens is a quintessential college town so its vibe is a bit different in that regard.
So because its not a "breeding ground of musical genres" then its of lesser significance?I guess Los Angeles and New York just are not important either.What genres of music were from those cities?
I already explained about Nashville.Thats only in the modern era.Before the 50's Nashville was not the epic center of Country.Country music is a mix of Scottish/Irish and African cultures.The Banjo which is prominent in country music was brought from Africa.
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The banjo is a stringed instrument with, typically, four or five strings, which vibrate a membrane of plastic material or animal hide stretched over a circular frame. Simpler forms of the instrument were fashioned by enslaved Africans in Colonial America, adapted from several African instruments of the same basic design.[1]
The banjo is usually associated with country, folk, Irish traditional music and bluegrass music. Historically, the banjo occupied a central place in African American traditional music, before becoming popular in the minstrel shows of the 19th century. In fact, African Americans influenced early development of the music that became country and bluegrass, through the introduction of the banjo and through the innovation of musical techniques for both the banjo and fiddle.
I'm from France but now live in Nashville and have travelled extensively. I don't care where you are in the world. People almost always know Nashville and a great deal have heard of Tennessee and Memphis and it's all because of music. Country Music, Rock and Roll, Blues, Bluegrass, Folk, Rap...all have a huge presence in the history of this state and the music is still made here. So many artists choose to make Nashville their home like Ben Folds, Jack White, Michael McDonald, Kesha, Jewel, Sheryl Crow, Old Crow Medicine Show, Young Buck, Kid Rock....that's a pretty diverse group without even mentioning all the country singers. Nashville is Music City and Tennessee is a state known for its musical history and current production. Georgia has contributed some great things to American music but its not on the same level as Tennessee.
I too have travelled extensively.Most people worldwide that I know of could notg even tell you what country music is.none the less where Nashville is.The only people even know Atlanta is due to either the Olympics,CNN or Coke.Thats not even a given that they even know the latter two were from Atlanta.Although Coke was actually invented in Columbus Georgia.
As far as "name dropping".There is Elvis....and everybody else as far as Tennessee is concerned.
If you can mention as many pioneers as I did earlier get back with me.Its obvious that you might not know that the Georgia scenes is even just as diverse.Just because a city is name "Music City" does not make it the de fact center.Country and a sizable indie rock scene is what Nashville has,but Atlanta is the Entertainment Capital of the South in my opinion.
I did not even mention the artist in the Atlanta area.
This is a forum without Atlanta so I did not mention it but since you brought up Nashville:
Atlanta Artist in Residence:
Elton John
Usher
Travis Tritt
Akon
Collective Soul
Zac Brown Band
Jennifer Nettles(Sugarland)
there are TONS more.
Elvis?Elvis you showcased African American music to the general public.Elvis is a legend but so what?I put Ray Charles up WAY before Elvis!
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Originally Posted by afonega1
So because its not a "breeding ground of musical genres" then its of lesser significance?I guess Los Angeles and New York just are not important either.What genres of music were from those cities?
I already explained about Nashville.Thats only in the modern era.Before the 50's Nashville was not the epic center of Country.Country music is a mix of Scottish/Irish and African cultures.The Banjo which is prominent in country music was brought from Africa.
Athens is a college town but many groups have come from there that are well known .REM to this day is as much revered worldwide as U-2 is.
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Originally Posted by afonega1
I too have travelled extensively.Most people worldwide that I know of could notg even tell you what country music is.none the less where Nashville is.The only people even know Atlanta is due to either the Olympics,CNN or Coke.Thats not even a given that they even know the latter two were from Atlanta.Although Coke was actually invented in Columbus Georgia.
As far as "name dropping".There is Elvis....and everybody else as far as Tennessee is concerned.
If you can mention as many pioneers as I did earlier get back with me.Its obvious that you might not know that the Georgia scenes is even just as diverse.Just because a city is name "Music City" does not make it the de fact center.Country and a sizable indie rock scene is what Nashville has,but Atlanta is the Entertainment Capital of the South in my opinion.
I did not even mention the artist in the Atlanta area.
This is a forum without Atlanta so I did not mention it but since you brought up Nashville:
Atlanta Artist in Residence:
Elton John
Usher
Travis Tritt
Akon
Collective Soul
Zac Brown Band
Jennifer Nettles(Sugarland)
there are TONS more.
I'm not sure what drugs you use, but they must be awesomely powerful...like the kind I haven't tried since college. Please let me know.
LOL.I sir do not drink nor partake in hallucinogenic drugs in my life.
It must be the water, then.
Look, I'm not going to doubt that Georgia has produced some very significant and enjoyable musical acts in its history, and that the music scene in Georgia is not quite good...but compared to Tennessee? No. You are welcome to have your opinions on who you like, but to put Georgia on the same map as Tennessee as far as musical significance is nothing short of laughable.
You can make your arguments as far as where the musicians were born, or even where they reside, but as far as the music production, music scene, and music industry, it's really not that much of a contest. Take away Nashville and Atlanta (per the argument of the original thread), and Memphis easily walks all over anything Georgia has left. Athens? Sure, it's renowned as producing some great bands that evolved from the local college scene to national prominence, but compared to Memphis? Sun Records alone blows anything Georgia has out of the water. Add in Stax and it is really just a laughable argument.
I don't really understand your whole argument about Elvis emulating Afro-American artists, or the banjo having African origins as being somehow significant. Is Georgia's proximity to Africa somehow in play here? Last time I checked, there were African Americans who produced music in Tennessee...and not just a few of them.
I do wish you wouldn't post your responses within the quote tags. It makes it really hard to respond to all of your statements. With that said...
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Originally Posted by afonega1
Based on what I have read and seen about these places,Augusta and Columbus have some colossal projects going on.Infrastructure,population projections,Are you aware of what is going on in Knoxville or Memphis,Please enlighten me.
The burden of proof isn't on me, it's on you. You said you'd choose Augusta and Columbus based on economic growth and future opportunities, but at the same time, you admit you don't know what's going on in the TN cities. This is one reason why I say you're being quite the blind homer in this thread.
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The amenities of Memphis?Like what?You act like Memphis is miles ahead of these cities.Only amenity I give them credit for is a trolley that they plan on expanding.
This is puzzling; it's like you've done a 180. Just a few posts ago, you were telling me that you admitted that Memphis and Knoxville had more to do. Anyway, Memphis has things like major league pro sports (NBA), a downtown minor league baseball team in a very well-designed urban ballpark, the trolley system (as you mentioned), large meeting facilities which ensures that it gets certain events that the other GA cities won't, tons of live music venues, a much busier airport, etc. I said nothing about Memphis being "miles ahead," but it is clearly in a higher tier than any of the other GA cities, being a metro area of 1 million+.
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I do know that Savannah has a larger tourism economy.While its subjective,you rarely hear anyone talk about the beauty of Memphis.
I dont believe I ever said otherwise.Again larger does not mean better.A diversified economy is better than a one trick pony.
You seem to forget that Georgia has two major ports that happen to be among the fastest growing in the U.S.
Tourism is nice for tourists, but as an industry, it's far from being a wealth generator. And I don't get what "beauty" has to do with anything. You rarely hear anybody talk about the beauty of New York, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I never said that larger means better, but it seems all you're basing "better" on is beauty and tourism. The term itself is subjective and lends itself to being defined in any way imaginable. And I would say that Memphis does indeed have a pretty diversified economy. Yes, Savannah does have its rapidly expanding seaport. Memphis has the world's busiest airport for cargo traffic, a designation it has held since 1993.
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Military bases are huge components of the economy of GA that TN just does not have.
True, and the TN cities have more F500 companies than the GA cities. Military bases provide a form of economic stability, but like tourism, they aren't really wealth builders. The private sector will always trump government/military when it comes to that.
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I'd agree with that actually.In fact I believe Birmingham's is even higher.Does that make Birmingham a completive place?
I have no clue what you're asking here, and I don't know what Birmingham's figure is or how that is even relevant.
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They are subjective but sometime its just no contest.What culture and historical things that TN has that GA does not?I don't mean specifics but things that are obviously different.
Dude, if something is subjective, that means it's based on personal preference and there IS a contest. Since we're talking about TN without Nashville and GA without Atlanta, TN has the musical culture of Memphis. I'm not talking about just where a few artists were born and raised, but the city of Memphis being an epicenter of the genres of blues and rock 'n roll, complete with live music venues and recording facilities. Of course, TN has nothing comparable to Savannah and its colonial history. We already established that GA has the coast and mountains, but TN has more mountains and has some of its larger cities located in the mountains.
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Job creation economic impact,is what I base my projections on.Columbus expects 30000 new employee at Ft.Benning due to BRAC and other government projects.Also Augusta with the NSA moved a major division there with 1000 jobs at Ft.Gordon.Savannah River Site and the Medical College of Georgia.
All of that is great, but I'm not so sure if everything is going to pan out the way it's been planned with the new economic and political realities we're facing. Even defense spending is on the table as far as budget cuts go, so it remains to be seen how that will affect military bases and other government-related institutions over the next few years. I expect these projects to be big boosts for Augusta and Columbus, but they surely won't be enough to put them on the level of Memphis and Knoxville economically. It remains to be seen if there will be any private sector spinoff that could further raise their economic profiles.
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Have you really been to LA?From Shreveport to Baton Rouge cities are in need of serious attention.Low education standards that have hardly risen,poor economic growth,infrastructure(especially roads)in bad need of upgrading.
Baton Rouge is the only city in LA that is really standing out thanks to Katrina.
Baton Rouge got no lasting impact from Katrina. Baton Rouge is doing well because of LSU and the petrochemical industry. Anyway, AL without Birmingham would be a better comparison for GA without Atlanta, or maybe even SC without Columbia (largest city, MSA) or Greenville (largest CSA).
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Its not like I cant see for myself that without all of Atlanta GDP wise TN would of course be more prominent.My whole discussion for this thread was to garner interest for each side as to why based on the guidelines would be more significant.Things like educational attainment(which I still hear no one dispute),poverty,GDP,income parity,housing,culture,history ,etc..make a place more popular than not.
Here are the latest educational attainment figures from the American Community Survey. This is for the percentage of residents in the metro with at least a bachelor's degree:
You should also be looking at Murfreesboro and Clarksville in your comparison. Those are two other cities with over 100K and Murfreesboro has over 200K in it's county. TN also has the Tri-Cities Metropolitan area with over 500K in its CSA (Johnson City, Kingsport, Bristol)
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My whole discussion for this thread was to garner interest for each side as to why based on the guidelines would be more significant.Things like educational attainment(which I still hear no one dispute),poverty,GDP,income parity,housing,culture,history ,etc..make a place more popular than not.
