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Memphis's convention center recently underwent an expansion, so I don't know if that figure includes the space that was recently added. Having been there myself, I know it's a fairly large facility.
Edit: the 350K figure for Memphis isn't for the entire facility, but just exhibit and meeting space. Savannah's convention center has 150K sq ft of exhibit and meeting space.
As far as GDP declines go, the majority of cities across the nation experienced that, including Atlanta. The exceptions tended to be cities where a relatively large or disproportionate part of their economy is reliant on public dollars (militart, government, education, etc.). It was a temporary setback nationally. Augusta's GDP is still relatively low for a metro its size.
The TN cities clearly have the edge. I'm not claiming they are light years ahead, but I think they are noticeably so in population and in terms of their economies.
Im aware that GDP are low everywhere but Im referring to GDP growth.In which case the TN trio is behind.Augusta was a typcal city a short 10-15 years ago.In the last 6 years it has seen the bulk of that growth.Thats why its future looks so bright even in the recesson.Its true for Columbus and Savannah too.
Economies are only as good as you can keep the pace at a decent growing rate.They can be come a drag if the area does not keep up the pace.So an edge as you say to me must show improvement ,not decline as you see in Memphis
lol.yes because polls on city data are 99.8% accurate.
Its a dangerous route to take if you validate polls on city data.It will come back and bite you in the future.
Lol I agree but why even have them then?
Besides they are rarely such a landslide as this one....
It's next to the "show/hide" icon on the toolbar, right about the text box where you type your replies.
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I never said Savannah did.
Come on dude, stop being disingenuous. You asked what amenities did Memphis have that the other GA cities don't have. I listed them, and you said that applies for Augusta and Columbus but not Savannah. I then said yes, that applies for Savannah as well because it doesn't have those amenities I listed.
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its almost like you are saying Savannah lacks that same aesthetically pleasing factors in its downtown.
OK, here's another . *sigh* When I said "aesthetically pleasing," I was specifically referring to Memphis's urban minor league ballpark downtown, one of those amenities that the GA cities don't have. I mean really, if we're going to have an honest discussion, you can't do stuff like this.
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Memphis is loosing population in its city and has been for a while.
The city lost population between 1980 and 1990, but gained from 1990 to 2000. Even so, while the city is experiencing its challenges, the metro area continues to post solid gains. As a matter of fact, one of its suburban counties posted a 57% gain over the last decade. And Shelby County remains by far the state's largest and gained over 30K people over the decade.
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Its even showing as to why Delta cut 25% of its routes in Memphis.Meanwhile flights are being added at both airports in Savannah and Augusta.
Here's the third . Now I didn't know this bit of information, but upon reading it I knew there had to be only one explanation that made sense, and it has absolutely nothing to do with minor population loss within the city limits of Memphis: Delta's acquiring of Northwest. And just a quick Google search shows that I was correct. MEM was a Northwest hub and when one airline acquires another, especially one that was a hub for the acquired airline, stuff like this happens. Once again dude, you are being very, very disingenuous with this type of stuff man. Anything for GA to "win," huh???
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But NBA team or not neither does Milan.
You think Milan being in ITALY might have something to do with that? Oh my God dude, you really need to stop. But even then, guess what? Milan is home to the most titled professional basketball team in Italy in the league that is their version of the NBA.
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Savannah is the type of city that does not need that kind of entertainment.
Savannah simply isn't large enough to support a major league professional team. It's pure economics. Aside from issues surrounding funding the construction of new venues, no city rejects the opportunity to be home of a major league professional sports team.
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The Memphis Grizzlies are in danger of leaving Memphis due to low attendance.Almost the last in the NBA.Some say its because of the high poverty rate.26% is not very good indicator of better opportunity.
It's because the Grizzlies suck. That's why last season, four teams in metro areas significantly larger than Memphis--Indianapolis, Sacramento, northern NJ, and Philly--posted even worse attendance figures. The poverty rate in Cleveland is much higher than in Memphis (over 30% actually), yet the Cavs ranked third in the league in attendance last season. Simple reasoning, my friend: get a good team with some good players in place, and people will show up at games.
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I just read what the site info gave me.But still pretty pathetic that it competes with a much smaller city with a less gdp as some are so quick to add.
As I mentioned in my previous post, the 350K figure is for exhibit and meeting space only. Savannah's convention center has 150K sq ft of exhibit and meeting space. That's pretty proportional to the size and tourism industry of both cities.
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No it was not.I just made the statement because this is what drives a large part of the economy of Savannah.Its what its known for but of course it has other industry.I never said you have to accept it being better for that reason,but its enough for me.
If that's the case, then we can make this entire thread about anything subjective that we want and say, "GA or TN wins!" based on that. If I like music culture and heritage and the NBA, then I could say "Memphis is WAY better than Savannah" but that wouldn't be very objective in a discussion where we are trying to use objective criteria to weigh the cities, now would it?
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How are they stronger?It may be larger but it does not "beat" Augusta or Savannah according to the BLS..Augusta and Savannah are growing at a much faster rate. Almost in every category in job sectors,Memphis had a decline.Total Nonfarm,Manufacturing,Trade and Transportation,even Leisure and Hospitality Services.Augusta,Savannah,Columbus,Athens,Warner Robins.
What exactly is growing at a much faster rate? I know that the TN cities lost some GDP due to the recession, as most cities that don't owe a large share of their local economy to government, military, or energy have, but that's a nationwide phenomenon and is in no way indicative of a long-term trend.
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Look,Savannah and Memphis are the only clear standouts. Obviously no one is knocking down doors to hang out in the other cities.Personally as long as I have friends I can hang out in all of them and have fun.Knoxville is still not what I consider lively.Like Augusta and Columbus,it has its moments.That really is subjective to which one is better.
Right, which is why I was perplexed about you bringing up Knoxville in that way. I never even claimed that Knoxville was some great entertainment center or tourist mecca or anything.
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Again.Look at how fast they are rising and the growth of those sectors.
The growth of what, finance/banking, energy, and transportation? There is no "fast-rising" growth in those sectors in the GA cities. Like just about every other city in the nation, Augusta and Columbus in particular lost GDP in private industries from 2008-2009, but had particularly strong growth in the government sector which help them post a modest overall GDP gain. That much should be evident since the biggest projects in those cities are government-related.
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Well I dont mean by GDP but certainly much more of a competitor as I believe it already is.
GDP is about the most objective way to measure that. Even so, in some ways Augusta in particular is already a competitor to Knoxville since their MSAs are in the half million to a million range. But it will definitely take longer than one decade for both it and Columbus to actually reach economic parity with Knoxville.
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I mean if you only count the downtown pops.,Augusta,Savannah and Columbus are larger.
I don't consider that an indicator of which is doing better. Plus, different cities have different standards for what they consider downtown. Some just include the CBD, while others include surrounding older neighborhoods. I have no clue if those standards are the same across the board. Given Savannah's age and urban fabric, I would expect it to have a downtown population larger than other cities its size.
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Yes I know the metro is a better indicator ,but with the size of these cities being smaller is not necessarily more negative.
Yes, metro IS a better indicator and it's why the vast majority of people have voted for TN in this poll.
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You talk about wealth builders but bring up the public sector which has notoriously low paying unskilled jobs.Augusta with the Medical College of Georgia expanding even more along with the huge private medical centers,those high tech jobs are driving up the salaries much faster.
I didn't bring up the public sector; you did. All I did was mention that you were bringing up public sector and government-related projects. Plus, I know that Memphis in particular also has some medical centers under construction, so it's not like it's exactly sitting still:
True.but im still not convinced thats the only thing or even the main reason.
Yes, the petrochemical industry in Baton Rouge is one of the main drivers of its growth and prosperity. To settle your doubts, Baton Rouge ranked first--by far--among metro areas with populations of 200,000 to 1 million for corporate expansions last year according to Site Selection magazine. Here's are two pertinent excerpts from the article that prove how much the petrochemical industry is driving the economic growth and prosperity of the area:
Most people would think that a metropolitan economy synonymous with the petrochemical industry would have endured a rough stretch in 2010...
That teamwork paid off in a big way for Baton Rouge in 2010, when the community landed large capital investments from companies such as Georgia Pacific ($397 million), Exxon Mobil ($362 million), BASF Corp. ($357 million) and Westlake Chemical Corp. ($300 million).
Those last three projects are in the petrochemical industry. That's at least $1 billion in investment coming from that sector alone in one year.
But anyway, take it or leave it. It's off-topic anyway, so...
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Exactly. Transplants are not staying once there commitment ends.
Uhhh, yes they are. The educational attainment figures are for the entire metro, which is indeed gaining people (9% growth over the past decade).
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There is not enough in Memphis to make people put up with bad schools unlike whats going on in Atlanta.
I suppose Memphis could see the same results if it demolished all of its public housing projects and those people moved out of the city. Even so, I wouldn't hold up Atlanta's public schools as a model at all.
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The degreed people you refer to do not make up the majority either.
They don't make up the majority in the vast majority of cities/metros across the country. Surely you knew that, didn't you?
It was one record company that influential in the genre of Southern Rock.Macon like article stated was city where that type of music came together collectively and Capricorn records was the company that made popular.
Your comprehension is lacking if you read that paragraph and came to that conclusion.Ty it again:
About June 14, 1923[13] (date is uncertain), Carson made his recording debut in an empty building on Nassau Street in Atlanta, cutting two sides, "The Little Old Log Cabin In The Lane" and "The Old Hen Cackled and the Rooster's going to Crow." Peer didn't like the singing style of Carson and described it "pluperfect awful" but he was persuaded by Brockman to press five hundred for him to distribute.[11][12][14] The recording was immediately sold out from the stage of the next Fiddler's convention on July 13, 1923
Its kinda like calling Georgia the Peach State but its second or third in production now a days.
At the end of the day, Macon was never a music epicenter like Memphis and nothing you posted showed that Atlanta was *the* epicenter of country music before Nashville or that Nashville never had a hand in the formation of the genre before the 1950's. I don't even know why we're discussing this since Atlanta and Nashville are supposed to be out of the discussion. At any rate, Nashville has been the home of country music for over half a century so the point is moot.
Tennessee without Nashville (the city & metro) still has Memphis. Georgia without Atlanta (the city & metro) doesn't have anything other than Savannah though, and Savannah is a cool tourist place but its not a big city or big metro.
I'm a big city type of person mostly, I do want to see Savannah one day but I'm going with Tennessee on this one for still having Memphis.
According to this the numbers are broken down.The largest capacity room in Memphis seats is separated by only 300 seats(Savannah).Thats not a huge difference compared to the huge disparity in size of each city.
That makes perfect sense. For a crowd any larger than 2900 (the maximum capacity meeting room at Memphis Cook Convention Center), you'd want to use your exhibition space instead. Also, MCCC has a total of 31 meeting rooms; Savannah's convention center has 18. You're really nitpicking in order to try and downplay Memphis, but Memphis has a perfectly adequate convention center given its size and the size of its tourism industry.
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Im aware that GDP are low everywhere but Im referring to GDP growth.In which case the TN trio is behind.Augusta was a typcal city a short 10-15 years ago.In the last 6 years it has seen the bulk of that growth.Thats why its future looks so bright even in the recesson.Its true for Columbus and Savannah too.
Where's your proof of this? Let me see the numbers and your source(s).
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Economies are only as good as you can keep the pace at a decent growing rate.They can be come a drag if the area does not keep up the pace.So an edge as you say to me must show improvement ,not decline as you see in Memphis
Huh? Aside from the decline from 2008-2009, Memphis's metro GDP increased by 32.4% from 2001-2008 which you can easily see by going here: http://www.bea.gov/regional/gdpmetro/
*sigh* I really can't take this anymore. When someone cherry picks facts to the extreme or even blatantly produces inaccurate information, I can't dialogue with them anymore. I think this discussion has run its course. I'm done. You created the poll, the people have spoken, and that's all there is to it.
It's next to the "show/hide" icon on the toolbar, right about the text box where you type your replies.
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Come on dude, stop being disingenuous. You asked what amenities did Memphis have that the other GA cities don't have. I listed them, and you said that applies for Augusta and Columbus but not Savannah. I then said yes, that applies for Savannah as well because it doesn't have those amenities I listed.
I already explained once that I was not clear which amenities you were refering to.I was thinking more infrastructure.Thats why I mentioned the trolley.
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OK, here's another . *sigh* When I said "aesthetically pleasing," I was specifically referring to Memphis's urban minor league ballpark downtown, one of those amenities that the GA cities don't have. I mean really, if we're going to have an honest discussion, you can't do stuff like this.
Refer to above.
The city lost population between 1980 and 1990, but gained from 1990 to 2000. Even so, while the city is experiencing its challenges, the metro area continues to post solid gains. As a matter of fact, one of its suburban counties posted a 57% gain over the last decade. And Shelby County remains by far the state's largest and gained over 30K people over the decade.
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Here's the third . Now I didn't know this bit of information, but upon reading it I knew there had to be only one explanation that made sense, and it has absolutely nothing to do with minor population loss within the city limits of Memphis: Delta's acquiring of Northwest. And just a quick Google search shows that I was correct. MEM was a Northwest hub and when one airline acquires another, especially one that was a hub for the acquired airline, stuff like this happens. Once again dude, you are being very, very disingenuous with this type of stuff man. Anything for GA to "win," huh???
Whatever.I quoted the the title/I never read the entire article.Yes I should have.Even so routes get cut if they are not money makers.I dont care if the previous had a hub there by the airline.I give you plenty of respect by not ASSuming the statement you make that are incorrect are just for whatever reasons you leave things out or misspoke so dont accuse me of being dishonest.i have not lied bout anything on this site.I dont care if Georgia looses this poll.Its not that serious.I choose to live here and I am hapy with that decision.Im not seeking your approval or anybody elses.
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You think Milan being in ITALY might have something to do with that? Oh my God dude, you really need to stop. But even then, guess what? Milan is home to the most titled professional basketball team in Italy in the league that is their version of the NBA.
Yes my cousin played for the team there a few years ago.However do you think that people go to Milan for a freakin basketball game?
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Savannah simply isn't large enough to support a major league professional team. It's pure economics. Aside from issues surrounding funding the construction of new venues, no city rejects the opportunity to be home of a major league professional sports team.
It's because the Grizzlies suck. That's why last season, four teams in metro areas significantly larger than Memphis--Indianapolis, Sacramento, northern NJ, and Philly--posted even worse attendance figures. The poverty rate in Cleveland is much higher than in Memphis (over 30% actually), yet the Cavs ranked third in the league in attendance last season. Simple reasoning, my friend: get a good team with some good players in place, and people will show up at games.
Cleveland Cavs have been around since 1970's when the NBA was expanding rapidly.Cavs have a culture of basketball in Cleveland.But yes i agree winning does make a difference.The Grizzilies are not that old.People will support a new team that is not winning.
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As I mentioned in my previous post, the 350K figure is for exhibit and meeting space only. Savannah's convention center has 150K sq ft of exhibit and meeting space. That's pretty proportional to the size and tourism industry of both cities.
True
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If that's the case, then we can make this entire thread about anything subjective that we want and say, "GA or TN wins!" based on that. If I like music culture and heritage and the NBA, then I could say "Memphis is WAY better than Savannah" but that wouldn't be very objective in a discussion where we are trying to use objective criteria to weigh the cities, now would it?
What exactly is growing at a much faster rate? I know that the TN cities lost some GDP due to the recession, as most cities that don't owe a large share of their local economy to government, military, or energy have, but that's a nationwide phenomenon and is in no way indicative of a long-term trend.
Right, which is why I was perplexed about you bringing up Knoxville in that way. I never even claimed that Knoxville was some great entertainment center or tourist mecca or anything.
The growth of what, finance/banking, energy, and transportation? There is no "fast-rising" growth in those sectors in the GA cities. Like just about every other city in the nation, Augusta and Columbus in particular lost GDP in private industries from 2008-2009, but had particularly strong growth in the government sector which help them post a modest overall GDP gain. That much should be evident since the biggest projects in those cities are government-related.
GDP is about the most objective way to measure that. Even so, in some ways Augusta in particular is already a competitor to Knoxville since their MSAs are in the half million to a million range. But it will definitely take longer than one decade for both it and Columbus to actually reach economic parity with Knoxville.
Look at each city for Non Farm Wage and Salary Employment.Then look under the different categores like Manufacturing,Trade Transportation and Utilities,etc.. Memphis, TN-MS-AR Economy at a Glance
Also look at the 2009 Best Performing Cities List Don by the Milken Institute.
Without Nashville,non of the TN city listed are doing overall better than GA cities.In Fact Columbus,Augusta and Savannah are doing remarkably well,Even the smaller cities like my home town compared to TN small towns are WAY ahead.This thread was nnot meant to be a major city to major city comparison as I clarified twice ,but people ignore the paremeters and vote on their own criteria.Thats why TN is winning the poll. 2009 Best Performing Cities - 200 Largest Metros
I don't consider that an indicator of which is doing better. Plus, different cities have different standards for what they consider downtown. Some just include the CBD, while others include surrounding older neighborhoods. I have no clue if those standards are the same across the board. Given Savannah's age and urban fabric, I would expect it to have a downtown population larger than other cities its size.
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Yes, metro IS a better indicator and it's why the vast majority of people have voted for TN in this poll.
Again if the poll questions said only mention the top 4 metro areas.Georgia has more MSA's than Tenn.
I didn't bring up the public sector; you did. All I did was mention that you were bringing up public sector and government-related projects. Plus, I know that Memphis in particular also has some medical centers under construction, so it's not like it's exactly sitting still:
Yes, the petrochemical industry in Baton Rouge is one of the main drivers of its growth and prosperity. To settle your doubts, Baton Rouge ranked first--by far--among metro areas with populations of 200,000 to 1 million for corporate expansions last year according to Site Selection magazine. Here's are two pertinent excerpts from the article that prove how much the petrochemical industry is driving the economic growth and prosperity of the area:
Most people would think that a metropolitan economy synonymous with the petrochemical industry would have endured a rough stretch in 2010...
That teamwork paid off in a big way for Baton Rouge in 2010, when the community landed large capital investments from companies such as Georgia Pacific ($397 million), Exxon Mobil ($362 million), BASF Corp. ($357 million) and Westlake Chemical Corp. ($300 million).
Those last three projects are in the petrochemical industry. That's at least $1 billion in investment coming from that sector alone in one year.
But anyway, take it or leave it. It's off-topic anyway, so...
Uhhh, yes they are. The educational attainment figures are for the entire metro, which is indeed gaining people (9% growth over the past decade).
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I suppose Memphis could see the same results if it demolished all of its public housing projects and those people moved out of the city. Even so, I wouldn't hold up Atlanta's public schools as a model at all.
Not at all ,but Atlanta city has been gaining people inspite of poor schools
They don't make up the majority in the vast majority of cities/metros across the country. Surely you knew that, didn't you?
Yes .But my point is Memphis has a much higher rate of students that do not graduate.How can they go to college?
That makes perfect sense. For a crowd any larger than 2900 (the maximum capacity meeting room at Memphis Cook Convention Center), you'd want to use your exhibition space instead. Also, MCCC has a total of 31 meeting rooms; Savannah's convention center has 18. You're really nitpicking in order to try and downplay Memphis, but Memphis has a perfectly adequate convention center given its size and the size of its tourism industry.
Where's your proof of this? Let me see the numbers and your source(s).
*sigh* I really can't take this anymore. When someone cherry picks facts to the extreme or even blatantly produces inaccurate information, I can't dialogue with them anymore. I think this discussion has run its course. I'm done. You created the poll, the people have spoken, and that's all there is to it.
You mean like you do?Know sir not me.Refer to the other post for my source.Its run the course but you answer what you feel you can answer yet conveniently leave out the other stuff you were just plain wrong on.Yet im so disingenuous?tHE NERVE.
This is starting to become humorous... It's still 39 to 13. Do you really think you can convince anyone else but yourself that Georgia is better off without Atlanta than Tennessee without Nashville?
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You asked what amenities did Memphis have that the other GA cities don't have. I listed them, and you said that applies for Augusta and Columbus but not Savannah. I then said yes, that applies for Savannah as well because it doesn't have those amenities I listed. 
