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You, at least, have basically heard of most of those things if just in passing. Regardless, it's a poor defense to say that because you've never heard of it, it's not true, which was my contention.
By the way, the saying I've heard all the time in academic readings. You can google search "all trends start in California" or even it's more popular alternative "As California goes, so goes the nation." and you'll come to the conclusion that the saying is more common in national media, even if you've never heard of it. (google results don't lie) And no, we don't say that in California. It's general articles when writing about California, that usually says it.
You can argue whether it has any meaning, and I admit that you'd probably have to read a lot of national media as I do to come across it as many times as I have.
I'm writing this from my phone so I will make it short and sweet.
Dtran, by saying I haven't heard of those things, I'm not trying to discredit them. I'm sure the Sierra Club has done great things and I'm sure the food movement is great too...what on saying is that they may not have the national affect which you claim.
As a Californian it's tough for you to give an objective opinion about the state's influence in other parts of the country. That's not a bad thing, but sometimes it's tough to see beyond your own borders.
dtran, you seem to be misunderstanding just how much the rest of the world pays attention to California. It is an important place (Hollywood and Silicon Valley especially), and no doubt everyone on earth with a basic education can tell you a few things about California. It is the most important state of the 50, but it is not more culturally important to this country than the Northeast.
You have discredited Northeastern cultural and social movements because they happened "at the turn of the century" , and yet you have brought up The 100+ year old Sierra Club as well as Harvey Milk, who was killed 30+ years ago. So are we talking about CURRENT social movement or HISTORIC ones? or are we specifically selecting a period of about 15 years in somewhat recent history in which ONE city in California was particularly progressive?
The fact is, right now, California is an embarassment to the gay rights movement. California (well, just SF actually) did great things for homosexuals in the 70s, but right now the major issue is that of gay marriage. Gay marriage is legal in 5 states. 4 of them are in New England, and the other is Iowa.
The "green movement" is wholly world-wide, with strong support in Europe, New Zealand, California, the Northeast, Canada. basically every developed nation on earth. California influenced it's start, but that was a hundred years ago and evidently that doesn't count... California has accomplished many great "green" developments. There are a lot of windmills, etc. There are also water issues that will continue to affect the state. It is one of the handful of states at the forefront, but it's not like someone who has solar panels in Vermont is sitting there thinking how glad is he is to have gotten the idea from Californians.
Now, if you wanna keep talking about Harvey Milk and the Sierra Club, then by all means let's discuss the social movements over the history of each region. The northeast is responsible for making the country, with the help of a few key Virginians, but that's too obvious so I'll move on. Public Education, Abolition, and Women's Rights all found their birth in New England and upstate New York. The Industrial Revolution was started in England, but it came to this country via the northeast, and it was followed by the Labour movement. Ah, but none of that matters...
When I talk about the conservation movement, I don't mean about the founding of the Sierra club per se, which you attribute to me, but I wasn't thinking about that until another poster brought it up and I was trapped in the conversation with another poster. I mean more about it's effects and influence it has in being relevant today, regardless of when it was originated. And I even gave within a reasonable past 30 year time frame as I stated in the original post, so I understand your confusion, but I stand by that every single movement I mentioned is or was relevant in our recent times. And you can argue Milk died in 78 so that makes 33 years, if you want to be that technical to exclude the 3 extra years.
And yes, the industrial movement and women's rights all matter. But if we are talking about regions with the most influence TODAY within our generation, than no. That simply doesn't matter. New York was also one of the original 13 colonies and our national capital. Constitution Convention in Philly. and Slavery laws. Important, but no, that still doesn't matter in the conversation given, for obvious reasons that you're aware of. It should not even have to be mentioned that the east coast has storied history and responsibility for the founding of the country. That's obvious and at the same time irrelevant.
And marriage is a huge influence and is the major topic today. Still doesn't match the recent accomplishments of San Francisco in our modern area in terms of discrimination laws, activism and of course, Hollywood's role in mainstreaming of gay culture happening today.
The green movement isn't just one movement that started when the first guy wanted to save a tree by in the 17th century. There are eras of the green movement that stand on it's own and are intertwined politically and socially to relevant issues that arise in our generation.
As far as caring whether anyone thinks about California? That's beside the point. Influence, when it takes hold, becomes organic in different areas of life. No one thinks of where it originated because in the end that doesn't matter. Still doesn't mean it didn't originate in a specific area, thus the topic of this thread.
I'm writing this from my phone so I will make it short and sweet.
Dtran, by saying I haven't heard of those things, I'm not trying to discredit them. I'm sure the Sierra Club has done great things and I'm sure the food movement is great too...what on saying is that they may not have the national affect which you claim.
As a Californian it's tough for you to give an objective opinion about the state's influence in other parts of the country. That's not a bad thing, but sometimes it's tough to see beyond your own borders.
Sorry, but you can't make that accusation without admitting to the same bias on the east coast. But that's the nature of the thread. There's no such thing as coming here without a bias, as everyone here comes from somewhere.
You, at least, have basically heard of most of those things if just in passing. Regardless, it's a poor defense to say that because you've never heard of it, it's not true, which was my contention.
By the way, the saying I've heard all the time in academic readings. You can google search "all trends start in California" or even it's more popular alternative "As California goes, so goes the nation." and you'll come to the conclusion that the saying is more common in national media, even if you've never heard of it. (google results don't lie) And no, we don't say that in California. It's general articles when writing about California, that usually says it.
You can argue whether it has any meaning, and I admit that you'd probably have to read a lot of national media as I do to come across it as many times as I have.
I can't figure you out man. Are you seriously that naive or just a major homer?
By the way, for your saying "As California goes, so goes the nation."
Lets see some context of where it comes from:
First ever reference: 1891 "As Pennsylvania goes, so goes the nation". 1892 "As New York goes so goes the nation"
I can't figure you out man. Are you seriously that naive or just a major homer?
By the way, for your saying "As California goes, so goes the nation."
Lets see some context of where it comes from:
First ever reference: 1891 "As Pennsylvania goes, so goes the nation". 1892 "As New York goes so goes the nation"
-first ever reference with California in it:
1946 "As California goes, so goes the Nation"
Look at the order of the states of when it was coined and the year. Notice which is the last state to use it?
Anyway, I mentioned this saying simply as an aside to my assertion of California's influence on the national scene. NOT to debate the topic of it as an actual saying, even if I've trapped myself into giving it more words than it deserves.
then you have it, Gantz. By using an unreliable un-sourced post from the Yahoo Answers website, you've proved New Hampshire is actually the most influential part of the US! Though, I think Michigan now has that saying since the auto industry downfall.
Do we really need to google the actual saying, and see which state comes up most? Again, making a debate about this phrase is a nothing more than a nitpicking strategy and distracting from the original intent of my previous posts.
Is there something im missing here? The northeast was an influential region before the Southwest was even created ,up till the present
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