Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,168,495 times
Reputation: 8105
Advertisements
Once again, the original question of the title has little to do with what's being discussed, and makes no sense. There is no such thing as a city that is more urban than another - every city by definition is urban.
If you ask, Which is more URBANE or has more URBANITY, this does not mean what some of you seem to think - that the question is which city is "better". Here's a definition that goes along with some others in the list I just called up: Behaviour that is polished, refined, courteous; What is characteristically urban in an area; urbanness; Courtesies urbanity - Wiktionary
Anyone who has lived in both cities knows that on average, SF is more polished, refined and courteous. That does not necessarily mean it is BETTER! There's something very vital, dangerous and real about the manners and ways of Philly compared to SF, at least in the downtown and north side, and I also lived in Chestnut Hill which was a weird blend of urbane people, brusque Middle Eastern immigrants, and thugs. Haven't been much in other areas. (it's been a very long time since I lived there, and it was only for a about a year. I've also lived in SF back in the 90s for maybe a year or so, in the crime-ridden Tenderloin.)
Even in the Tenderloin, the criminals were generally polite if you talked to them, even if they would go right back to beating up their whores or prying open mailboxes with a crowbar the moment your back was turned.) In Philly, the thugs were often openly contemptuous, and the good people were ..... crusty, curmudgeonly I guess you could say, for the long-time old residents? Not suave or polished behavior, but could be very boisterous and filled with amiable insults, especially in Italian neighborhoods.
So SF is definitely the winner as far as urbanity is concerned, but certainly not "better" in general. It would be very hard for me to decide which I'd prefer, other than the issue of weather which is more important to me than most people (for medical reasons - I can't tolerate extreme humid heat nor extreme cold very well). I guess on the whole I'm a more introverted and nice guy, and so would fit in better with characteristic ways of SF, but I also love to visit Philly now and then, at least when the taxi drivers aren't trying to get me to go all the way to Albany for just $700. To me, good times in Philadelphia may mean sitting in a neighborhood bar drinking some cheap plebeian draught beer with a slice of good honest Philly pizza, no woodfired health pizza with fruits and gorgonzola like you'd find in SF, listening to the loudmouthed Italians swearing at each other with garlic-laden dragon breath, and enthusiastically slapping each other on the back.
Well this thread is ridiculous, and too long to skim the whole thing, but has anyone mentioned (and then argued about) how most of the trolley cars on the popular F line in SF are repainted PCC cars that they actually purchased from Philly (who had stupidly mothballed them after converting virtually all of their trolley lines to buses in the 80's and 90's)?
And yes, I know they restored the 15 recently, and the 23 still partially runs on special occasions, but there used to be many more lines when I was a kid, that ran regular service. SF seems to value them a lot more than Philly did.
I also lived in Chestnut Hill which was a weird blend of urbane people, brusque Middle Eastern immigrants, and thugs. Haven't been much in other areas. (it's been a very long time since I lived there, and it was only for a about a year.
Weird. How long ago was that? Because I grew up in Germantown, which is close to Chestnut Hill, so I know that area very well, and that doesn't sound like any Chestnut Hill I know or remember at all! (and I'm not so young) Thugs and Middle Easterners? Really now?
I was just there last week on a photo shoot. Chestnut Hill is being renovated, there are quite a few apartment complexes there. It is a decent, safe neighborhood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome
Weird. How long ago was that? Because I grew up in Germantown, which is close to Chestnut Hill, so I know that area very well, and that doesn't sound like any Chestnut Hill I know or remember at all! (and I'm not so young) Thugs and Middle Easterners? Really now?
You have outdated impressions of Philly, I suspect. There are huge swaths of downtown where people are exactly as polite, or as rude as somebody from SF. The food scene is incredible, micro brews dominate like nowhere else but Portland. How's this for a beer garden: http://philadelphia.foobooz.com/2011...arden-is-back/
"To me, good times in Philadelphia may mean sitting in a neighborhood bar drinking some cheap plebeian draught beer with a slice of good honest Philly pizza, no woodfired health pizza with fruits and gorgonzola like you'd find in SF, listening to the loudmouthed Italians swearing at each other with garlic-laden dragon breath, and enthusiastically slapping each other on the back." - If you want to hang with hipsters and old Italians, be my guest. You'd be better off at any one of these establishments instead: http://philadelphia.foobooz.com/2011...lly-bar-crawl/
A couple years ago, Food & Wine magazine ran an article declaring that the food scene in Philly is now more interesting than the food scene in New York. http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/...reat-food-city The last couple years have seen a huge push in that direction. Marc Vetri, Stephen Starr and Jose Garces lead the pack. Philly is not about eating slices, cheese steaks and drinking beer. That's like saying SF is a city where you go to eat an egg roll and drink a hot chocolate.
How many of those old Italians do you think are left here? 500, maybe 1,000? Yes they are characters, but they are a dying breed. Same thing happened in New York. Little Italy has practically ceased to exist.
If one judged a city by the characters they run into on the street, one would think SF, and Cali in general, was the homeless capital of the USA.
Comparing homeless populations for a minute:
"The city's homeless population has been estimated at 7,000-10,000 people, of which approximately 3,000-5,000 refuse shelter." - courtesy of SF gate via wikipedia"
vs.
"A weeklong survey of the city's homeless found 528 people living on the streets, slightly more than half of them described as "physically vulnerable and at increased risk of death." - philly.com
Tell me, do SF bums say please before demanding spare change? That would be quite urbane. It was the case in Toronto.
As for the Taxi drivers, I don't know what kind of conversation you got into, but there are weirdo taxi drivers throughout the world. Don't pin that one on Philly. Try taking a cab in Athens, Greece if you want a true shady experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof
Once again, the original question of the title has little to do with what's being discussed, and makes no sense. There is no such thing as a city that is more urban than another - every city by definition is urban.
If you ask, Which is more URBANE or has more URBANITY, this does not mean what some of you seem to think - that the question is which city is "better". Here's a definition that goes along with some others in the list I just called up: Behaviour that is polished, refined, courteous; What is characteristically urban in an area; urbanness; Courtesies urbanity - Wiktionary
Anyone who has lived in both cities knows that on average, SF is more polished, refined and courteous. That does not necessarily mean it is BETTER! There's something very vital, dangerous and real about the manners and ways of Philly compared to SF, at least in the downtown and north side, and I also lived in Chestnut Hill which was a weird blend of urbane people, brusque Middle Eastern immigrants, and thugs. Haven't been much in other areas. (it's been a very long time since I lived there, and it was only for a about a year. I've also lived in SF back in the 90s for maybe a year or so, in the crime-ridden Tenderloin.)
Even in the Tenderloin, the criminals were generally polite if you talked to them, even if they would go right back to beating up their whores or prying open mailboxes with a crowbar the moment your back was turned.) In Philly, the thugs were often openly contemptuous, and the good people were ..... crusty, curmudgeonly I guess you could say, for the long-time old residents? Not suave or polished behavior, but could be very boisterous and filled with amiable insults, especially in Italian neighborhoods.
So SF is definitely the winner as far as urbanity is concerned, but certainly not "better" in general. It would be very hard for me to decide which I'd prefer, other than the issue of weather which is more important to me than most people (for medical reasons - I can't tolerate extreme humid heat nor extreme cold very well). I guess on the whole I'm a more introverted and nice guy, and so would fit in better with characteristic ways of SF, but I also love to visit Philly now and then, at least when the taxi drivers aren't trying to get me to go all the way to Albany for just $700. To me, good times in Philadelphia may mean sitting in a neighborhood bar drinking some cheap plebeian draught beer with a slice of good honest Philly pizza, no woodfired health pizza with fruits and gorgonzola like you'd find in SF, listening to the loudmouthed Italians swearing at each other with garlic-laden dragon breath, and enthusiastically slapping each other on the back.
I was just there last week on a photo shoot. Chestnut Hill is being renovated, there are quite a few apartment complexes there. It is a decent, safe neighborhood.
I know. Not that it needs renovation. It's never had a substantial downslide, aside from some business loss to the suburbs after the rise of the suburban shopping malls, and Borders corporation going out of businesses recently. It's one of the best, most elite, and and most stable neighborhoods in the city, and has been that way basically for it's entire (long) existence. I'll be there again tomorrow for brunch. I think anyone talking about it being characterized by 'thugs and middle easterners' has it confused with someplace else.
I know. Not that it needs renovation. It's never had a substantial downslide, aside from some business loss to the suburbs after the rise of the suburban shopping malls, and Borders corporation going out of businesses recently. It's one of the best, most elite, and and most stable neighborhoods in the city, and has been that way basically for it's entire (long) existence. I'll be there again tomorrow for brunch. I think anyone talking about it being characterized by 'thugs and middle easterners' has it confused with someplace else.
Chestnut Hill has been nice for as long as I can remember and this for me goes back a few decades.
Yup, it's a beautiful area. There are spas, boutiques, restaurants, an audiophile stereo store, basically beautiful and sophisticated, near some of the best trails anywhere, golf, etc. If only they would restore the #23 trolley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome
I know. Not that it needs renovation. It's never had a substantial downslide, aside from some business loss to the suburbs after the rise of the suburban shopping malls, and Borders corporation going out of businesses recently. It's one of the best, most elite, and and most stable neighborhoods in the city, and has been that way basically for it's entire (long) existence. I'll be there again tomorrow for brunch. I think anyone talking about it being characterized by 'thugs and middle easterners' has it confused with someplace else.
Yup, it's a beautiful area. There are spas, boutiques, restaurants, an audiophile stereo store, basically beautiful and sophisticated, near some of the best trails anywhere, golf, etc. If only they would restore the #23 trolley.
Right, maybe Philly can buy the cars back from San Francisco.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
