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Density = walkability in many cases and walkability is NOT an overrated attribute.
I think it's an overrated attribute at CD, I'm not talking about in general society.
It might be a very important attribute, but even if one puts it way high "dense=good-city/spread-out=bad-city" or even "walkable=good-city/car-oriented=bad-city" should pretty obviously be an oversimplification of reality. There's bound to be a "walkable city" that doesn't have much worth walking to or a "car-oriented city" with places worth the trip. I mean unless you are needing to lose weight, but even then I'd imagine there are "car-oriented cities" with decent gyms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava
You'd be surprised how outdated that viewpoint is... just like in the US, the only areas in most third world countries barring the poorest of the poor that experience the conditions you just described are for the most part the impoverished rural areas. Rural people are generally the downtrodden of Latin America and Asia... there's a very tangible bias against them from city folk, just like here in the states. Think the Appalachians but on a larger scale.
I've known people who live in the Third World and it really is true few to no American cities have genuinely Third-World conditions and that Appalachia doesn't precisely compare. What might confuse things though is the term.
Traditionally "Third World" meant the underdeveloped nations not in the Communist sphere. Or where the "bottom third" of the population lives. Many people have a tendency to use it to mean "the nations that aren't among the 40 most developed." Mexico is currently listed as 56th in human development, so it's not among the forty rich but it's not in the bottom third either. Mexico is also above some of the Eastern European nations or at least above some of the Caucuses. I would think the "Third World" would more sensibly start around 84th ranked Algeria. In Latin America the nations more clearly Third World include Paraguay, Honduras, Guatemala, Bolivia, and Nicaragua. Although some in their cities might live nice many really do live in conditions worse than anything here in terms of sanitation, contagious disease, and conveniences. Only some Indian reservations really compare to living somewhere with cholera outbreaks, rabid dogs in the street, and malnutrition. (Although even the urban poor in Mexico often live much worse than anyone in Philadelphia or Cleveland)
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nineties Flava
You'd be surprised how outdated that viewpoint is... just like in the US, the only areas in most third world countries barring the poorest of the poor that experience the conditions you just described are for the most part the impoverished rural areas. Rural people are generally the downtrodden of Latin America and Asia... there's a very tangible bias against them from city folk, just like here in the states. Think the Appalachians but on a larger scale.
Honestly though, most Americans have no idea what "third world" actually means and in many cases don't even understand it in the context they use it. Countries like Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, etc. are laughably misrepresented in the media... it's like how kids even now draw hunters in the jungle when they think of Africa. It's an uneducated, childish and somewhat appalling lack of understanding about the rest of the world that allows America to think that it compares overwhelmingly favorably to "everybody else" when in reality the exact same things that are going on in the slums of Rio de Janeiro, San Juan, Panama City, etc. are going on in our slums. The difference is that our government has a stronger foundation and is much less susceptible to being corrupted and compromised from the inside... for now.
As far as whether America is noticeably "better" than other countries though, it depends on what you consider "better" to be. Do you consider not having to wait 5 years for the latest fashion and technology from 5 years ago considerably "better"? Do you consider having more access to higher education "better"? Because in many ways, despite not being on our level economically and education-wise, they also don't have our pray-to-the-corporate-gods culture. And as I said earlier, the areas that you described - no running water, no sanitation, etc. - tend to not be in the urban centers, they tend to be in the rural areas. Interestingly, they also tend to have far, far less property or violent crime than our slums despite being far more impoverished. Could it be that urban culture has more to do with violent crime than how wealthy a country is?
I get your point but I'm not saying that view fits every city in every third world country, but I still doubt that any American city comes close to third world. I said I've never been to a third world country but I don't doubt some still fit what I said. Hell, people call Detroit third world ALL THE TIME lol and I HIGHLY doubt it fits third world. The poorest of the poor here can still live in a nice size single family home with a lawn and back yard. I doubt that is third world
I think C-D posters are throwing around that "third world" comment a little to loosely. I've never been to a third world country but I find it hard to see how any American city can compare to places without running water and/or access to clean/hot water at any given time, homes made of some tin or whatever else some of the people build their homes (most I've seen look like shacks) out of, and most people not be able to afford some of the simple things. Yea some cities may have run down areas, poor people etc but I don't know about to third world level.
Third world images are outdated.
I've spent a lot of time in third world countries and most of them have excellent subway systems, public transportation, Internet cages everywhere, and on and on. Everyone attached to their cellphones texting away.
It's when I go back to the U.S., that I'm shocked to see so little public transportation, so few Internet cafes, etc
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
Third world images are outdated.
I've spent a lot of time in third world countries and most of them have excellent subway systems, public transportation, Internet cages everywhere, and on and on. Everyone attached to their cellphones texting away.
It's when I go back to the U.S., that I'm shocked to see so little public transportation, so few Internet cafes, etc
is anybody paying attentiont to what I wrote???? ONCE AGAIN, I'm not saying this applies to every last third world country but I highly doubt that every single third world country is full of great transit and people attached to their cell phones smh. You all can sugar coat it all you want, but comparing an American city to a third world country because it has some run down areas is stretching.......talking about outdated
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
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besides, regaurdless of wether a third world country fits my description, that is what most people think of when they think of third world. They aren't thinking of great public transit, they are thinking of poor people running around with no shoes living in shacks and try to say any American city fits that is reaching
I've spent a lot of time in third world countries and most of them have excellent subway systems, public transportation, Internet cages everywhere, and on and on. Everyone attached to their cellphones texting away.
It's when I go back to the U.S., that I'm shocked to see so little public transportation, so few Internet cafes, etc
If these are countries where it's not uncommon for children to die of preventable diseases it's Third World, and more unpleasant than any US city, even if the upper-classes have great public transportation and cellphones. If it's a place where the populace in general is healthy, educated, and makes a decent living it's not Third World even if it's Central America or Africa.
Also what is the obsession some have here with public transportation? I mean I think it's a good thing myself, but I don't see why it's the thing. It's just a good thing among many factors. I believe there are Indian cities with plenty of tech jobs, good railroads, numerous food poisoning deaths, and thousands in slums dying of starvation or infections. I wouldn't call that "equal to an American city."
If these are countries where it's not uncommon for children to die of preventable diseases it's Third World, and more unpleasant than any US city, even if the upper-classes have great public transportation and cellphones. If it's a place where the populace in general is healthy, educated, and makes a decent living it's not Third World even if it's Central America or Africa.
Also what is the obsession some have here with public transportation? I mean I think it's a good thing myself, but I don't see why it's the thing. It's just a good thing among many factors. I believe there are Indian cities with plenty of tech jobs, good railroads, numerous food poisoning deaths, and thousands in slums dying of starvation or infections. I wouldn't call that "equal to an American city."
I'm not making a debate that health is better in rural third world countries.
My basic point is that the third world isn't some uniform sludge pool of backward nothingness of a hell on earth lacking all amenities.
Much of the third world are very cool places with everything that the U.S. Has, and sometimes more.
I'm not trying to detract from the U.S., just trying to fend off the old tiring stereotype that the 3rd world is some kind of collective unified lacking all amenities of nothingness, when pretty much everything in the west is found abundantly. The only real difference is that in the 3rd world, not everyone has access to everything. Where a person could make a solid point of saying that even the worst off in the U.S. Kinda sorta do.
Location: Detroit's eastside, downtown Detroit in near future!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
I'm not making a debate that health is better in rural third world countries.
My basic point is that the third world isn't some uniform sludge pool of backward nothingness of a hell on earth lacking all amenities.
Much of the third world are very cool places with everything that the U.S. Has, and sometimes more.
I'm not trying to detract from the U.S., just trying to fend off the old tiring stereotype that the 3rd world is some kind of collective unified lacking all amenities of nothingness, when pretty much everything in the west is found abundantly. The only real difference is that in the 3rd world, not everyone has access to everything. Where a person could make a solid point of saying that even the worst off in the U.S. Kinda sorta do.
DC is definately one. The reason Philly and Chicago get ridiculed more is because their attitudes are arrogant as they call themselves friendly and brotherly.
You realize that Philadelphia literally means "City of Brotherly Love" in Greek, right? Modern Philadelphians didn't just make that up and start proclaiming it to everyone.
And to the person that said DC is "making strides" when it comes to crime, the fact of the matter is that DC still has a higher crime rate (and has for the past few decades) than Philadelphia and Chicago, which get hammered on C-D for being high crime while DC slips under the radar.
Anyway, EVERY city has faults and every city will have a type of person that will not like it. However, when that person points out those faults that personally effect them while failing to see why certain other type of people may enjoy living there, that says far more about the person than the city.
Last edited by 2e1m5a; 09-11-2011 at 11:20 AM..
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