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I thought that about Chicago too until I came here. There are only a handful of rail lines, and they're better designed for getting people in/out of downtown than they are getting people around the city.
Bus coverage isn't really worth much to me. They rot in traffic just like cars do, plus they stop at every other block. I have a hard time finding a place easy to live without cars if there aren't fast and reliable trains.
It's all about where you live. Certainly all 227 or whatever square miles of Chicago are NOT set up to be car free.
I've been car free for 8 years, and it's worked out great. I live in Uptown, play in Lakeview and work downtown though, so it's all set up perfectly. The Red and Brown lines get me everywhere I really need to be, and honestly I take the bus WAY more than I ever thought I would. The thing about the bus is you don't take it really long distances in Chicago. I normally just take east-west or a north-south buses because they get me where I'm trying to go within 10 minutes or so. I can walk about anywhere I need to be except work (which I always take a train or express bus) so I just take buses if they're coming and make the trip a lot quicker, or if it's bad weather.
One thing that changed my entire outlook on buses was the GPS bus tracker. Now I know to the minute where every bus is in the city.
Living in Chicago car free is much easier if you work downtown and live along a rail route with your social scene somewhere along the same route or nearby. Hence why the north side of the city is by far the most dense, easily has the highest transit ridership and the lowest car ownership. I'd say there are around 50 square miles on the north side through downtown to the near south that you can easily live without a car. Then again in Logan Square/Bucktown, etc. along the blue line.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. In some places here, it's downright preferable to not have a car, but this is a big ass city, and such isn't true of many parts of it. Unless you live, work play along the same L line (most easily Red, Brown or Purple) being car-free might be a bit of a hassle. There's a tiny North side corridor of the city for which I'd say it's simple to live sans wheels, but for the rest of the town, not so much. I live car-free here too, btw.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. In some places here, it's downright preferable to not have a car, but this is a big ass city, and such isn't true of many parts of it. Unless you live, work play along the same L line (most easily Red, Brown or Purple) being car-free might be a bit of a hassle. There's a tiny North side corridor of the city for which I'd say it's simple to live sans wheels, but for the rest of the town, not so much. I live car-free here too, btw.
I wouldn't call it a tiny corridor. Remember, Chicago is 227 sq miles, places like SF and Boston are sub 50... Chicago easily has over 50 and more that are very manageable sans car. Even in NYC there are several areas that suck w/o a car... Why? It's like 300 sq miles. Inner areas of the green/pink/orange line work also that are towards the loop b/c you can go in easily then transfer north bound. There are more places to live w/o a car manageable than every city in the U.S. sans NYC, but even in NYC you need to pick an appropriate area to do this in. DC might be a better system and higher ridership, but there are more options in Chicago.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. In some places here, it's downright preferable to not have a car, but this is a big ass city, and such isn't true of many parts of it. Unless you live, work play along the same L line (most easily Red, Brown or Purple) being car-free might be a bit of a hassle. There's a tiny North side corridor of the city for which I'd say it's simple to live sans wheels, but for the rest of the town, not so much. I live car-free here too, btw.
I wouldn't say it's tiny. It's almost a million people living in an area the size of San Francisco.
Rogers Park - 54,991.00
West Ridge - 73,942.00
Uptown - 56,362.00
Lincoln Square- 39,493.00
North Center- 31,867.00
Lake View- 94,368.00
Lincoln Park- 64,116.00
Near North- 80,484.00
Near West - 54,881.00
Avondale - 39,262.00
West Town- 81,432.00
Loop - 29,283.00
Near South- 21,390.00
Armour Square- 13,391.00
Logan Square- 73,595.00
Bridgeport- 31,977.00
Douglas - 18,238.00
Oakland- 5,918.00
Kenwood - 17,841.00
Hyde Park- 25,681.00
Edgewater- 56,521.00
Total - 965,033.00
Last edited by Chicago60614; 11-10-2011 at 07:55 AM..
A lot of people live North closer to the lake because that's where the things to do are, but as a percent of Chicago's total area, that tiny corridor is not much. If you don't cluster North/East, the ease with which you can live without a car tapers off drastically. I don't even see how that statement is debateable.
I wouldn't call it a tiny corridor. Remember, Chicago is 227 sq miles, places like SF and Boston are sub 50... Chicago easily has over 50 and more that are very manageable sans car. Even in NYC there are several areas that suck w/o a car... Why? It's like 300 sq miles. Inner areas of the green/pink/orange line work also that are towards the loop b/c you can go in easily then transfer north bound. There are more places to live w/o a car manageable than every city in the U.S. sans NYC, but even in NYC you need to pick an appropriate area to do this in. DC might be a better system and higher ridership, but there are more options in Chicago.
More options? DC has the biggest bike sharing program in the US right now. In fact, Chicago is about to get bike share because DC's old DOT head was fired when the new Mayor came in and Gabe found a job in Chicago this year. DC has more transportation options and culturally is more of a carless city and region. Chicago is playing catch up. Bike Sharing might be harder in Chicago though because of the snow. I guess we will see when you guys get your system up and running.
More options? DC has the biggest bike sharing program in the US right now. In fact, Chicago is about to get bike share because DC's old DOT head was fired when the new Mayor came in and Gabe found a job in Chicago this year. DC has more transportation options and culturally is more of a carless city and region. Chicago is playing catch up. Bike Sharing might be harder in Chicago though because of the snow. I guess we will see when you guys get your system up and running.
Yes meaning more population better served, DC has a very good system but by no means are all the people in the metro well covered, nor Chicago but there are more people in areas with very good coverage relative to DC, that is true. I understand you will likely not accept this but to me there is ABSOLUTELY a larger population better covered in Chicago. With the TOD infills and new lines in DC it will improve but quite honestly you come off completely disregarding the value, effeciency, and coverage in other areas of the country relative to DC (sans NYC as I think you realize that would discredit the notion). There are fabulous aspects to the Metro and the suburban development is very good (something all areas could use as a model, well if they could anywhere near the subsidies that the DC area gets) but I agree that Chicago offers more options, menaing a larger population well covered. One thing to remember is even after the new lines and TOD development in the DC area many if not most people will not live in an area that has walking distance service of convieniance, those in the TOD centers will and the development there is admirable but its not like everyone actually lives in these spaces, living off Leesburg pike as an example in Sterling is not exactely transit friendly so to speak.
Yes meaning more population better served, DC has a very good system but by no means are all the people in the metro well covered, nor Chicago but there are more people in areas with very good coverage relative to DC, that is true. I understand you will likely not accept this but to me there is ABSOLUTELY a larger population better covered in Chicago. With the TOD infills and new lines in DC it will improve but quite honestly you come off completely disregarding the value, effeciency, and coverage in other areas of the country relative to DC (sans NYC as I think you realize that would discredit the notion). There are fabulous aspects to the Metro and the suburban development is very good (something all areas could use as a model, well if they could anywhere near the subsidies that the DC area gets) but I agree that Chicago offers more options, menaing a larger population well covered. One thing to remember is even after the new lines and TOD development in the DC area many if not most people will not live in an area that has walking distance service of convieniance, those in the TOD centers will and the development there is admirable but its not like everyone actually lives in these spaces, living off Leesburg pike as an example in Sterling is not exactely transit friendly so to speak.
Definition of options:
1: an act of choosing
2: something that may be chosen: as
a: an alternative course of action <didn't have many options open>
Having option would be as follows:
Walking, Taxi, Biking, Subway, Commuter Train, Driving, The Bus
These choices are what option's are. This is why I said there are more options in D.C. at the moment. Not to mention better weather which makes it easier to use these options also. If we were talking about coverage, then it would be a different story. I already said in this very thread that Chicago had more extensive rail coverage than D.C. Doesn't seem to be quality though with ridership being so extremely low in Chicago for a metro area that size. Ridership speaks to how great the system is and it's obviously not received well in Chicago.
As for TOD, we are speaking about Job's being rail accessible. In the D.C. suburbs, you have people that walk to the train station, take the bus to the train station, or drive to the train station. An increasing number of people are riding their bike to the train station. Our development is done with high intensity along transit lines and those are the people living walking distance away. High rise development around train stops is the kind of development that fosters high ridership. Single family homes don't provide density and barely make a difference on ridership in reference to Leesburg Pike. This is for Reston, Tyson's Corner, Dulles etc. The projects are already under construction in those area's and they dwarf construction across most of the country combined. On a side note, single family homes don't provide much ridership for commuter rail either which many cities that focus heavily on commuter rail should address if they want their transit numbers to rise.
2: something that may be chosen: as
a: an alternative course of action <didn't have many options open>
Having option would be as follows:
Walking, Taxi, Biking, Subway, Commuter Train, Driving, The Bus
These choices are what option's are. This is why I said there are more options in D.C. at the moment. Not to mention better weather which makes it easier to use these options also. If we were talking about coverage, then it would be a different story. I already said in this very thread that Chicago had more extensive rail coverage than D.C. Doesn't seem to be quality though with ridership being so extremely low in Chicago for a metro area that size. Ridership speaks to how great the system is and it's obviously not received well in Chicago.
As for TOD, we are speaking about Job's being rail accessible. In the D.C. suburbs, you have people that walk to the train station, take the bus to the train station, or drive to the train station. An increasing number of people are riding their bike to the train station. Our development is done with high intensity along transit lines and those are the people living walking distance away. High rise development around train stops is the kind of development that fosters high ridership. Single family homes don't provide density and barely make a difference on ridership in reference to Leesburg Pike. This is for Reston, Tyson's Corner, Dulles etc. The projects are already under construction in those area's and they dwarf construction across most of the country combined. On a side note, single family homes don't provide much ridership for commuter rail either which many cities that focus heavily on commuter rail should address if they want their transit numbers to rise.
MD I follow but also know that area of NOVA very well, MOST of Reston (a community planned pretty well) is single family or townhomes far away from the rail stations. On Dulles, while infill is taking place route 28 is as suburban as it gets. The intensity you describe is good and getting better (though just to be fair this existed in places like Boston, Chicago, and Philly long before actually, you act as if this is something totally new at times) and also on options these same options are available in the other places. the ridership numbers in DC compared to say a Philly are not because of capacity or access, they are because of where the jobs migrated (KOP vs center city as an example of which KOP is horrible with PT access, a disaster really). On this respect DC has done a far better job but on accesability I am just not buying it one bit. I lived there and her and in NYC and in SF. I do really like the TOD developments in DC though and they get more focused, to me a very good thing. Transit option s in a place like Reston or even Tysons are not really city like. they are good for commuters and good to get people into town, to get from Reston to Rockville on the metro will be a haul.
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