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A lot of people live North closer to the lake because that's where the things to do are, but as a percent of Chicago's total area, that tiny corridor is not much. If you don't cluster North/East, the ease with which you can live without a car tapers off drastically. I don't even see how that statement is debateable.
I'd hardly sit around and call San Francisco or Boston "tiny little areas" though. The area we're talking about is larger than those entire cities. Twice the size of Manhattan. It just comes off like it's some little blip on the radar screen and then gone. Like it's only one or two streets that stretch for a mile. There are almost 100,000 college students and 700,000 employees in that area as well as the million residents. It's the critical mass and engine of the entire region. Take away that "tiny corridor" and the metro falls flat on its face.
I'm not saying you're wrong about how it trails off pretty quick, especially compared to some other areas.
Way to ignore the point. As much praise as you want to lob onto the aforementioned Northside corridor, it's not the entire city. It's a small part of it, size and population of San Francisco notwithstanding. My artist's impression is a fair representation, so much so that I'm going to post it again.
MD I follow but also know that area of NOVA very well, MOST of Reston (a community planned pretty well) is single family or townhomes far away from the rail stations. On Dulles, while infill is taking place route 28 is as suburban as it gets. The intensity you describe is good and getting better (though just to be fair this existed in places like Boston, Chicago, and Philly long before actually, you act as if this is something totally new at times) and also on options these same options are available in the other places. the ridership numbers in DC compared to say a Philly are not because of capacity or access, they are because of where the jobs migrated (KOP vs center city as an example of which KOP is horrible with PT access, a disaster really). On this respect DC has done a far better job but on accesability I am just not buying it one bit. I lived there and her and in NYC and in SF. I do really like the TOD developments in DC though and they get more focused, to me a very good thing. Transit option s in a place like Reston or even Tysons are not really city like. they are good for commuters and good to get people into town, to get from Reston to Rockville on the metro will be a haul.
Transit accessibility is defined as being a 400 meter buffer zone around a station. Every single Silver Line train will have about 400 meters in every direction of high intensity development. The four Silver Line Stations in Tyson's Corner are building enough housing to accommodate a population of 100,000 over the next 18 years. The growth the DC area will see will all be funneled to Metro lines and Marc/VRE lines. Single family homes should never be close to a metro line. The single family homes you keep speaking about are very far from the 11 metro stations on the new Silver Line. If they want to ride the train, they will have to take the bus which by the way, the Fairfax county bus system you knew is not the Fairfax county bus system that is being put in place now. Fairfax county will be like Montgomery County very soon.
Also, you need to realize that the low ridership around transit is usually because of a lack of intensity like Row Houses which don't add enough density. That is why commuter rail lines through row house neighborhoods have such small ridership compared to multi-family high rise neighborhoods. This is why DC builds high rises around all it's Metro stations from the core clear to the suburbs. Ridership speaks for itself.
Transit accessibility is defined as being a 400 meter buffer zone around a station. Every single Silver Line train will have about 400 meters in every direction of high intensity development. The four Silver Line Stations in Tyson's Corner are building enough housing to accommodate a population of 100,000 over the next 18 years. The growth the DC area will see will all be funneled to Metro lines and Marc/VRE lines. Single family homes should never be close to a metro line. The single family homes you keep speaking about are very far from the 11 metro stations on the new Silver Line. If they want to ride the train, they will have to take the bus which by the way, the Fairfax county bus system you knew is not the Fairfax county bus system that is being put in place now. Fairfax county will be like Montgomery County very soon.
ok, again I think the TOD is great but it by no means covers anything close to a majority of the populace. And no places I have discussed are within Reston etc..
Will see on 100K residents in Tysons in any of our lifetimes, just dont buy it and YES I do know the area well (though makes a great PR statement in a plan and like all plans I believe them when I see them). But yes I do think this is all very good as noted in many of my posts but this still doesnt cover the other 4+ million residents in the burbs of DC, my point.
But man as someone said in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
Washington DC - "Keynesian economics are a wonderful thing! Just ask everybody who lives here!"
Most other metros would be happy to get 1/10th of the funds trickling down from Gov't, enjoy it as it cant be sustained. Italy today more US frivolous spending tomorrow hurray
ok, again I think the TOD is great but it by no means covers anything close to a majority of the populace. And no places I have discussed are within Reston etc..
Will see on 100K residents in Tysons in any of our lifetimes, just dont buy it and YES I do know the area well (though makes a great PR statement in a plan and like all plans I believe them when I see them). But yes I do think this is all very good as noted in many of my posts but this still doesnt cover the other 4+ million residents in the burbs of DC, my point.
But man as someone said in another thread.
Most other metros would be happy to get 1/10th of the funds trickling down from Gov't, enjoy it as it cant be sustained. Italy today more US frivolous spending tomorrow hurray
I don't know how old you are but Generation Y doesn't want to live way out in a single family house in the burbs like their parents. It's widely believed that places that aren't urban will be the ghettos of the future. As people continue to opt out of the suburbs and into urban environments, it will be easier and easier to accommodate a population of 100,000 in Tyson's Corner. Baby boomers are adding to the urban population as well.
In urban economics, it is taught that an area where population is stable, meaning not growing and not shrinking, new construction causes places to be abandoned. The abandoned houses and ghettos in cities were actually caused by the construction of new housing. As new housing is built in the urban areas (in DC's case around metro lines) the abandoned houses of the future will be the aging McMansions out in the sprawling suburbs. This is widely believed by Urban Planners and Urban economists.
Also, DC should think other countries for investing in our real estate like Quatar Funding City Center DC or Abu Dabi funding the convention center hotel and multiple towers in Rosslyn. The US is not the only one building DC, the rest of the world is beginning to chip in.
As new housing is built in the urban areas (in DC's case around metro lines) the abandoned houses of the future will be the aging McMansions out in the sprawling suburbs. This is widely believed by Urban Planners and Urban economists.
That will really be a sight to see... And hopefully a warning against the excesses of the early 00's.
That will really be a sight to see... And hopefully a warning against the excesses of the early 00's.
There's also no empirical data to support this trend yet. Its all wishful thinking so far. The vast majority of growth as reported by the census etc. has occurred on the fringes of every metro region. That's not denying the rebirth of many of the central districts within cities. Just that this growth is only a small percentage relative to the overall metro growth and it has in no way started an emptying out of the suburbs.
Ben
There's also no empirical data to support this trend yet. Its all wishful thinking so far. The vast majority of growth as reported by the census etc. has occurred on the fringes of every metro region. That's not denying the rebirth of many of the central districts within cities. Just that this growth is only a small percentage relative to the overall metro growth and it has in no way started an emptying out of the suburbs.
Ben
This process will not happen over night. Building of new houses doesn't happen overnight. The redevelopment of cities from the core out and lower income families being forced out to the suburbs will dictate this process. Enough new housing has to be built and the next generation has to also become the dominate adult population. As the older population dies off and the new population doesn't move out to the burbs, that is when people will notice. Minorities which by the way I am one are expected to be a majority in this country by that time. Many low income minorities will only be able to afford places out in the burbs which bring the burbs down which is already beginning to happen. As this trend continues, urban populations will soar. Wait for it to play out to look for the signs.
I agree with the above from Ben. I am Gen Xer who lives in one of the most urban neighborhoods of the country FWIW but as stated the growth driver in the US was still the burbs, mostly exurban in the last ten years. Though to be fair their has been a rebirth in urban spaces. Both Boston and Philly saw the largest percentage increases in their core populations in nearly 100 years recently but this on the whole represents a small percentage of the overall growth. Can I see some change, absolutely, overnight, no, all new construction in high density, no way. Personally I would prefer it but I feel it just wont be the case. The largest growth in the DC metro was in Loudon County I believe, nearly ALL suburban/exurban in nature. I think Tysons will infill and that is a good thing, the palce was awful for years, all the pain of urban places with none of the character. But I realistically do not see it being a 100K place so to speak, that would make it on par with the highest DT neighborhood concentrations in the US, just dont see it.
Also it is great they teach concepts, there is always a difference between theory and reality, plans and what comes to fruition. Maybe even being one generation older I have been around long enough to not always believe the press nor theory.
Also more than just sprawl led to failure of many neighborhoods, but was a factor
lastly, urban living is very desired to many until they have kids in school, not saying I agree or disagree with the premis but it is oh so real.
the abandoned houses of the future will be the aging McMansions out in the sprawling suburbs.
haha that is if they can stand long enough to "age". The quality of some newly constructed houses is abysmal.
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