Greater downtown Toronto vs. Greater downtown Atlanta (market, building, nightlife)

[Amercity]

Originally Posted by Galounger

No high rises in Clarkston. It's mostly an immigrant town full of poor refugees from all over the world but there are plenty of suburbs of Atlanta that do have highrises. Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Vinnings, Cobb Galleria all come to mind.

Im sorry i meant high rises in the suburbs of TORONTO not atlanta. Ive been to both. Toronto suburbs always seem to walkable and have highrises while atlanta suburbs always seemed to be too sprawled out.

[Galounger]

Originally Posted by Amercity

Im sorry i meant high rises in the suburbs of TORONTO not atlanta. Ive been to both. Toronto suburbs always seem to walkable and have highrises while atlanta suburbs always seemed to be too sprawled out.

I know this. You specifically asked how does Clarkston compare to the suburbs of Toronto then went on to say the suburbs of Toronto were dense and walkable and some of them have highrises. I responded by saying Clarkston has no highrises but many suburbs or suburban areas of Atlanta do.

[travis3000]

Toronto 100%. You couldn't pay me to live in some southern conservative state. The social values of Canada and thus Toronto alone make it that much more appealing to me even if the houses were 80% cheaper in Atlanta.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Toronto 100%. You couldn't pay me to live in some southern conservative state. The social values of Canada and thus Toronto alone make it that much more appealing to me even if the houses were 80% cheaper in Atlanta.

Makes a lot of sense.

[philobeddoe]

Originally Posted by travis3000

Toronto 100%. You couldn't pay me to live in some southern conservative state. The social values of Canada and thus Toronto alone make it that much more appealing to me even if the houses were 80% cheaper in Atlanta.

I agree 1000%

[Ant131531]

This is no contest. When you look at Toronto's overall urban area alone, it's much more massive and dense then Atlanta. Toronto's Downtown and Midtown area is extremely impressive. Very dense with many high rises. Urbanity extends for miles and miles, meanwhile you can find a strip mall in Atlanta 1/2 a mile from Downtown. Urbanity drops off dramatically.

[johnathanc]

I've spent a lot of time in both cities and visit both regularly. Overall, Toronto is a better city but it is not a landslide victory as Atlanta does have a lot of offer. Based on the criteria:


-cityscape/architecture:
Toronto has a big downtown with a dense skyline. The city core is quite urban but the architecture is not especially pleasing to the eye. I would say the buildings and homes in Atlanta are more pretty at street level.

-"urban living":
Toronto is an urban city. Atlanta is a suburban city. They are designed differently so Toronto is definitely more urban by a long shot. No one can survive in the ATL without a car.

-shopping: I would say Atlanta. There are more upscale stores and the pricing of the middle range stores are better. Toronto has shopping but it's too expensive for what it is which is not a Toronto but Canada problem. Overall, I find Atlantans better dressed than Torontonians.

-dining:
Very subjective. Both cities are good in what the other is not. Toronto has a lot of Carribbean, Chinese and Indian cuisine. Atlanta has a lot of BBQ, Southern, and Mexican. Been to lots of great hole in the walls and trendy spots in both cities. Tough call but eating out is cheaper in ATL so I might give an edge based on this.

-nightlife
Both cities have a lot of nightlife from what I've seen. Both have lots of clubs and bar districts but I will say Atlanta is more flashy. It's close but I might give an edge to Toronto. Based on what I've heard/seen, there seem to be more ecletic options.

-safety
Toronto is safer. You can be safe staying out of certain hoods in ATL but Toronto is just safer overall.

-pedestrian friendliness (which includes continuity of pedestrian friendliness along the corridor)
Atlanta by a longshot. Atlanta is a southern city and you feel the manners and friendliness of the locals. Toronto is a city where people don't talk to strangers much and generally stick with who they know. People are polite but not interested in being friendly for the sake of it.

-which street pattern you prefer (Toronto's strict north-south/east-west grid with shorter blocks vs. Atlanta's meandering streets with huge blocks)
I prefer the grid style of streets. Driving in ATL is annoying, especially if you are not local since the streets snake all over the place. It's hard to get lost and easier to find places in a grid system.

-transit (public transit, bike lanes/paths, ease of catching a cab)
Toronto again by a long shot. Taking the bus or MARTA in ATL implies one is low income and can't afford a car. Living in downtown Toronto, having a car is more a liability more than anything else.

-anything else you find relevant
Yeah, Cost of Living. With a good job, the cost of living in ATL feels about half of Toronto. Your dollar goes further so one can vacation more and afford nicer things. The price of a condo in Toronto can get you a home in ATL so this can have a dramatic change in one's lifestyle.

[grapico]

^ I think pedestrian friendly is which is more walkable, not how friendly people are you encounter while on the street.

[johnathanc]

Originally Posted by grapico

^ I think pedestrian friendly is which is more walkable, not how friendly people are you encounter while on the street.

You are correct, I read that too quickly and started typing. In that case, obviously Toronto due to the more urban city format. In Atlanta, you have to drive somewhere to walk around.

[pignchick]

After living in both cities, I can say that I would choose Atlanta over Toronto due to cost of living; and I hope that I can move back there in the future. That said, Toronto wins some of the categories.


Skyline (Toronto wins)

Toronto has a more dense and interesting skyline because of the massive development (mostly condo) that has taken over the city. However, Atlanta has multiple clusters of high rises in Downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter Mall, and Cumberland Mall. If all of Atlanta’s high rises were consolidated, it would probably be quite impressive. The growth in Toronto has been crazy, but I think that Canadians are tapped out and growth in Toronto will slow. Atlanta, however, has lots of room to grow and densify. Atlanta is starting to see some growth now after the 2008 real estate crash. There are plenty of apartments (mostly low-rise) making the city more dense.

Urban Living (Atlanta wins for me)
What irritates me about Toronto is that it seems that there are very few apartments have been built in the last 20 years. In Atlanta you can find a decent large apartment in a nice neighborhood for much less than in Toronto. Anything affordable is a dump in Toronto. Also, because real estate is so expensive in Toronto, everyone seems to have to rent out their basement. No one typically rents a basement in Atlanta. Many people don’t have basements (just crawlspace) because they don’t have to worry about pipes freezing, and they don’t usually need that supplemental tenant income to make the mortgage work.

Shopping (Atlanta)
The USA is much better than Canada for shopping. First there is the 13% sales tax in Ontario. The sales tax in Georgia in ~7-8% depending on the county you shop in. Online shopping is also light years better in the United States vs. Canada, and many online retailors offer free shipping. The no sales tax on online order will slowly disappear now that California will start charging sales tax on online purchases. The other issue is that everything seems to be 20-30% more in Canada than what I can get the same thing for in the USA. Thank god they raised the duty free limit and American retailors are moving north.

Dining (Atlanta)

Toronto and Atlanta have great restaurants for almost every genre of food because both cities are very diverse. Yes, Toronto.. American cities are also diverse. 25% of the Gwinnet county population is foreign born (not as high as Toronto, but this would qualify as diversity). That said, I would eat at Atlanta restaurants over Toronto restaurants because Atlanta restaurants of the same quality are always cheaper, and they seem to offer better promotions (day based deals, coupons, etc.). Atlanta is also where GPS based deal finder Scoutmob started. Toronto has nothing like Scoutmob.

Nightlife (Toss-Up)

I don’t visit bars or clubs often, but it is probably a toss-up and I might have to give Toronto the edge on this. Georgia does not control liquor sales like Ontario (GA just taxes them higher) so alcohol (beer / wine / sprits) are usually much less even at clubs and bars. That said, I think that TTC does a better job of getting those drunk patrons home and reducing the need to drive. The Toronto hostels are also much better for those foreign students who want to experience the nightlife. However, the United States seems to offer steeper discounts on hotel rooms (rates in Atlanta are ridiculously low compared to Toronto). Also, the density of Toronto probably creates some cool entertainment districts (Queen West area comes to mind). Atlanta also losses some points because of the archaic 21 year age limit on alcohol sales.

Safety (Toronto)

In general, Atlanta is not a safe city. That said, Toronto is not exactly a safe city either. I would say that if you stay out of the bad parts of town and not flash your valuables you should avoid being a crime statistic in Atlanta or Toronto. The cheaper the rent the more likely you may be living in a low-income neighborhood, the crappier the schools will be, and the higher the crime will be. Toronto wins simply because the crime rate in Atlanta is probably higher than Toronto.

pedestrian friendliness (Toronto)

Both cities are terrible for pedestrian friendliness. Toronto is ok in the core, but the suburbs are terrible. Also, it sucks walking outside in the winter. Atlanta, grew up in the car era and they are slowly undoing some wrongs. They still have a long way to go but many civic organizations have been phenomenal in improving the pedestrian and bike facilities. Atlanta also has the right weather to someday be an amazing bike friendly city. Toronto and Atlanta both need better bike share programs.

which street pattern you prefer (Atlanta)

Toronto’s grid pattern is easier to understand. However, the topography and lush vegetation of Atlanta (it is a city built in the woods) makes it a much prettier drive. My only pet peeve is the gated or planned communities and private drives in the suburbs of Atlanta.
However, I prefer Atlanta’s roads. The freeways are more extensive and in better shape. There is also very few roads with tolls on them. The 407 in Toronto is ridiculously expensive and a terrible privatization decision.


Transit (Toronto easily wins this)
MARTA has been bled dry for years. Fulton and Dekalb counties are the only ones participating in MARTA funding (they pay MARTA a 1% sales tax). Also, since many jobs are not on a MARTA line, and cars are so cheap to own and operate, most people are not even using MARTA. MARTA keeps reducing their service and raising their fares that it has become pathetic. MARTA needs to be reorganized as part of a regional transit system and the financing model needs to be revised. TTC has some financials issues that I don’t agree with and the fares are quite high, but they are expanding the system and getting a new fleet. TTC usage is probably way higher than MARTA as well. Lack of support for public transit will be a big problem for Atlanta in the future.

Other

It seems that every government fee is much higher in Ontario vs Georgia and the service is awful in both places. Grocery stores are cheaper and marginally better in the United States. The Canadian marketing boards that control the price of milk, cheese, eggs, etc. need to go.