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Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Are we focusing on the urban environment or on demographics? Just curious. Either way, in my opinion, New York City is the most "European"-like city we have. Disregarding its skyscrapers and street grid (which is irregular in quite a few places), NYC has the most European-like demographics and European "feel" in this country, to me. And apparently I'm not the only one who sees some similarities.
Are we focusing on the urban environment or on demographics? Just curious. Either way, in my opinion, New York City is the most "European"-like city we have. Disregarding its skyscrapers and street grid (which is irregular in quite a few places), NYC has the most European-like demographics and European "feel" in this country, to me. And apparently I'm not the only one who sees some similarities.
A lot of those NYC-to-Europe comparisons are a stretch at best. But, NYC does have a lot in common with many cities in Europe. The walkable nature; good mass transit; apartment living; some neighborhoods in some boroughs are not on a grid.
But, I'm a bad person to post here because the only European country I've ever visited was Turkey. But the Brighton Beach neighborhood (the Russian part of town) in Brooklyn felt similar to some of the more densely populated suburbs in Istanbul. I'd assume it feels more Russian than Turkish, but I've never been to Russia.
I wouldn't say it feels European by any stretch of the imagination, but with its wide boulevards and many statues and monuments, Indianapolis could be a left-field contender for the Midwest. Now that I think about it, the breaded pork tenderloins you see all over Indy are pretty similar to schnitzel. And there's lots of beer in Indy too.
One could make a case that Washington DC is the most European-feeling city in the South (but let's not open that Pandora's box).
While I don't feel European in the slightest, but due to the Spanish influence in terms of architecture in its urban core, Tucson is probably the best we're gonna get in the Mountain West. The University of Arizona attracts some European students.
A friend of mine went to Germany and was disappointed to find that it looked like Iowa.
Another friend went to Sweden and was disappointed to find that it looked like the Lower Peninsula of Michigan.
Another friend went to Germany and said that Frankfort felt somewhat American.
Last edited by Dawn.Davenport; 11-25-2015 at 01:39 PM..
I'd say that not many cities in the United States are European-like when we talk about places like Lisbon, Barcelona, Rome, Paris, Milan, Stockholm, and Vienna. I'm not saying that is a negative thing, they are just a lot different from even an atmosphere standpoint. Boston and San Francisco are the only two cities that even might be vaguely reminiscent of Europe but each is still very much American.
Boston has certain quirks that feel European but it's still engrossed in American history with it's Colonial roots. San Francisco has certain quirks that feel European as well but still feels very much American with it's demographics and a kind of California-Pacific culture. San Francisco's setting could also play a factor for various reasons for different people.
I don't think New Orleans and Charleston are good examples, both feel very Southern and almost Caribbean as opposed to European. Once again not being negative, just expressing my opinion. Both cities have vastly different settings from Europe as well as huge demographic changes that can't be ignored. People bring up a kind of relaxed atmosphere that New Orleans has and I think that is more akin to what is found in parts of the Caribbean. Those summers in New Orleans though... oh my
Last edited by MuffinMan16; 11-26-2015 at 05:27 AM..
...A friend of mine went to Germany and was disappointed to find that it looked like Iowa.
Another friend went to Sweden and was disappointed to find that it looked like the Lower Peninsula of Michigan.
Another friend went to Germany and said that Frankfort felt somewhat American.
No disagreement here on how "American" Europe looks, especially Germany and its cities. Hopefully your friend realizes (with the exception of Heidelberg) how utterly destroyed all major German cities were at the end of WWII, whence sprung their new urbanization. Many tourists may not realize it, but much that appears so medieval and quaint in German cities today is little more than large-scale Disneyland reconstructions dating back no further than 1945.
In the NE, I can't understand why Philadelphia hasn't gotten more votes. To me, Philadelphia is the most European of big cities because it has:
- Narrow streets with 150-300 year old buildings hugging the curbs, and a dense Center City area with lots of old buildings and mixed-use development. Many neighborhoods, esp Center City, are dense and walkable, but with mixed-use people-scaled rowhomes, walk-ups and mixed-use buildings. Blocks are short and are lined with numerous sidewalk cafes.
- A wide, diagonally-running Ben Franklin Parkway with several large Paris-like traffic roundabouts and flanked by set-back monumental buildings, crowned at its north end with the historic Art Museum which is an updated Parthenon on its own acropolis and on it's south end, the huge, uber-Euro City Hall, with it's ornate architecture, courtyard and plaza, also in a large traffic roundabout (the largest municipal building in the world... The BF Parkway is a grand, monumental boulevard that would be at home in many European capitals and is Philly's Champs-Elysees.
- U.Penn is a grand urban university in close-in West Philly featuring several Oxbridge-style Gothic buildings, esp the huge block-long Quad residences which is right up on the street.
- a Euro-style transit network featuring a basic subway-elevated system in the city supplemented by subway-surface trolleys and a huge, fully-unified, fully-electrified network (13 lines) of regional commuter rail connected by the Center City tunnel (think German's S-Bahn systems or Paris' RER) whereby the combined network puts the major bulk of city residents and many suburbanites within no more than 1/2 mile walk a rail station on one of the systems. (add to this, the fact that Philly a midpoint station on the USA's only Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, to date, America's only high-speed railway system; there's also an electrified 100-mile regional line to the state capital at Harrisburg)
- old-style rowhomes in practically every quadrant of the City.
- Many Euro-like outer neighborhoods, like Germantown, Mount Airy and Chestnut Hill featuring walkable village-style commercial areas with old-timey hardware stores where vendors put out their wares on their street corner every morning. There are even some gas stations with their pumps right on the sidewalk and no pull-in areas. There there are adjacent residential areas with narrow side streets with lots of trees, flower gardens and stone walls with hanging vines.
- The Manayunk and East Falls neighborhoods echo old European hillside mill towns.
- A Euro-style land usage pattern preserved over several centuries, with dense urban development surrounded by large, unspoiled park lands and natural areas: Fairmount Park is the in-city park in the world. Many neighborhoods like East Falls, Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill actually feel rural, and Philadelphia actually has 2 working farms within its borders: one being the famed Saul Agricultural High School. Also immediately adjacent to NW Philly (in Montgomery County) is the huge Erdenheim farms, with sheep, goats and horses. Outside of Philly, many of the suburban towns dating to the early 1800s are centered around SEPTA's Regional rail stations (which are often historic in themselves), with shopping, retail and offices within a block or 2 of the train station...
... in between these suburbs are a lot of rural natural areas featuring narrow roads (lanes). Greater Philadelphia is different from the typical sprawling, highway-oriented metro areas of the United States. In fact, Philly probably has the least amount of urban highways per resident of any American city.
But most importantly, the PEOPLE.
Philly is an understated international area. The many old and internationally-recognized colleges and universities (Penn, Thomas Jefferson Hosp, nearby Swarthmore, etc), museums and research institutions (a la the Franklin Institute) historical hospitals, theater and music venues (and the famed Philly Orchestra) attract individuals from all over the world. Again, Philly is an understated/underrated world city and its never unusual to see many internationals and hear foreign languages spoken in town, esp in Center City.
In the NE, I can't understand why Philadelphia hasn't gotten more votes. To me, Philadelphia is the most European of big cities because it has:
- Narrow streets with 150-300 year old buildings hugging the curbs, and a dense Center City area with lots of old buildings and mixed-use development. Many neighborhoods, esp Center City, are dense and walkable, but with mixed-use people-scaled rowhomes, walk-ups and mixed-use buildings. Blocks are short and are lined with numerous sidewalk cafes.
- A wide, diagonally-running Ben Franklin Parkway with several large Paris-like traffic roundabouts and flanked by set-back monumental buildings, crowned at its north end with the historic Art Museum which is an updated Parthenon on its own acropolis and on it's south end, the huge, uber-Euro City Hall, with it's ornate architecture, courtyard and plaza, also in a large traffic roundabout (the largest municipal building in the world... The BF Parkway is a grand, monumental boulevard that would be at home in many European capitals and is Philly's Champs-Elysees.
- U.Penn is a grand urban university in close-in West Philly featuring several Oxbridge-style Gothic buildings, esp the huge block-long Quad residences which is right up on the street.
- a Euro-style transit network featuring a basic subway-elevated system in the city supplemented by subway-surface trolleys and a huge, fully-unified, fully-electrified network (13 lines) of regional commuter rail connected by the Center City tunnel (think German's S-Bahn systems or Paris' RER) whereby the combined network puts the major bulk of city residents and many suburbanites within no more than 1/2 mile walk a rail station on one of the systems. (add to this, the fact that Philly a midpoint station on the USA's only Amtrak's Northeast Corridor, to date, America's only high-speed railway system; there's also an electrified 100-mile regional line to the state capital at Harrisburg)
- old-style rowhomes in practically every quadrant of the City.
- Many Euro-like outer neighborhoods, like Germantown, Mount Airy and Chestnut Hill featuring walkable village-style commercial areas with old-timey hardware stores where vendors put out their wares on their street corner every morning. There are even some gas stations with their pumps right on the sidewalk and no pull-in areas. There there are adjacent residential areas with narrow side streets with lots of trees, flower gardens and stone walls with hanging vines.
- The Manayunk and East Falls neighborhoods echo old European hillside mill towns.
- A Euro-style land usage pattern preserved over several centuries, with dense urban development surrounded by large, unspoiled park lands and natural areas: Fairmount Park is the in-city park in the world. Many neighborhoods like East Falls, Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill actually feel rural, and Philadelphia actually has 2 working farms within its borders: one being the famed Saul Agricultural High School. Also immediately adjacent to NW Philly (in Montgomery County) is the huge Erdenheim farms, with sheep, goats and horses. Outside of Philly, many of the suburban towns dating to the early 1800s are centered around SEPTA's Regional rail stations (which are often historic in themselves), with shopping, retail and offices within a block or 2 of the train station...
... in between these suburbs are a lot of rural natural areas featuring narrow roads (lanes). Greater Philadelphia is different from the typical sprawling, highway-oriented metro areas of the United States. In fact, Philly probably has the least amount of urban highways per resident of any American city.
But most importantly, the PEOPLE.
Philly is an understated international area. The many old and internationally-recognized colleges and universities (Penn, Thomas Jefferson Hosp, nearby Swarthmore, etc), museums and research institutions (a la the Franklin Institute) historical hospitals, theater and music venues (and the famed Philly Orchestra) attract individuals from all over the world. Again, Philly is an understated/underrated world city and its never unusual to see many internationals and hear foreign languages spoken in town, esp in Center City.
It doesn't really feel European at all...a defining characteristics for many European cities is a large midrise apartment urban fabric....Philly largely lacks that completely. It's either highrise or lowrise rowhouses/townhomes. On top of that, many European cities aren't on a grid. Very haphazard. Even Paris, one of Europe's most modern planned cities isn't really a grid.
It doesn't really feel European at all...a defining characteristics for many European cities is a large midrise apartment urban fabric....Philly largely lacks that completely. It's either highrise or lowrise rowhouses/townhomes. On top of that, many European cities aren't on a grid. Very haphazard.
Philly feels colonial American.
I think you're making the assumption that all European cities have a completely mid-rise form, when that's not uniformly the case. The outer-neighborhoods of even most major European cities have a plethora of human-scaled rowhouse neighborhoods. They're not always haphazard, either, although I'd definitely agree that's the most common form.
Philly's plethora of attached, human-scaled housing, and overwhelmingly one-way streets, with a notable lack of highway infrastructure, are very unique for such a large American city.
As to this general conversation, I think Boston, Philly and DC have the best arguments for the most European influenced large cities in the US--all for different reasons and diferent cues. But of course they're all distinctly American, as well.
Being born in Italia ,and lived in France as a young boy I find Philadelphia ,especially South Philly felling very European . A lot of my family visit from France and Italy and they love Philly with Ninth ST. market and Reading Terminal .It"s more Euro felling then any other city in America in my opinion .
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oh my
