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I was joking but since you are inquiring I obviously want to help you being the dear that I am(LOL), so let's take a look see.
2012 GDP
San Francisco CSA(Pop 8.370 Million)..............................$606 Billion.......$72,490 per capita
San Francisco MSA(Pop 4.455 Million)..............................$360 Billion.......$80,919 per capita
Province of Quebec $300 Billion(Pop 7.903 Million)............$300 Billion.......$37,960 per capita
Montreal Metro Area $140 Billion(Pop 3.957 Million)...........$140 Billion.......$35,380 per capita
The Bay Area has a GDP 4.3 times larger than the Montreal Metro(and twice as big as the entire province of Quebec), the SF MSA has a GDP that is 2.5 times larger than the Montreal Metro Area.
I don't see any real argument for Montreal at all quite frankly. It has a lower crime rate, that's nice.
The lifestyle one is capable of having in SF year-round and the opportunities that are available as far as being upwardly mobile far eclipse anything Montreal has to offer. It's not really close.
Hey 18Montclair, can I borrow your Rolls for the weekend? You're so rich living in SFO
I was joking but since you are inquiring I obviously want to help you being the dear that I am(LOL), so let's take a look see.
2012 GDP
San Francisco CSA(Pop 8.370 Million)..............................$606 Billion.......$72,490 per capita
San Francisco MSA(Pop 4.455 Million)..............................$360 Billion.......$80,919 per capita
Province of Quebec $300 Billion(Pop 7.903 Million)............$300 Billion.......$37,960 per capita
Montreal Metro Area $140 Billion(Pop 3.957 Million)...........$140 Billion.......$35,380 per capita
The Bay Area has a GDP 4.3 times larger than the Montreal Metro(and twice as big as the entire province of Quebec), the SF MSA has a GDP that is 2.5 times larger than the Montreal Metro Area.
I don't see any real argument for Montreal at all quite frankly. It has a lower crime rate, that's nice.
The lifestyle one is capable of having in SF year-round and the opportunities that are available as far as being upwardly mobile far eclipse anything Montreal has to offer. It's not really close.
The two cities seems to be doing well economically. I mean does Montreal looks poorer than San Francisco? Not to my naked eye anyway. And when one looks at their Median Household income:
San Francisco–Oakland–San Jose, California CMSA $63,024 (number 1 amongst US CMSA)
Montreal CMA, $67,010 (number 23 amongst Canadian metros)
They are very similar. But one thing I have to say about Montreal is that I think it's been hindered by the language law. Not that it would be at SF level if it wasn't there, but it can perhaps partly explain why its well above Canadian level.
And I think your second comment is just an opinion right? I like San Francisco a lot, but like the lifestyle of Montreal more personally. And the lifestyle argument I don't agree with. They are different, yes, but I don't even think SF itself have good weather. I like Montreal's climate much better myself, and can find plenty to do year round.
GDP is actually a poor measure of how well off people are in a given place since you can have huge corporate profits that are only in the hands of a few and don't trickle down at all into the population.
Looking at median household income, SF is around 63 000 US dollars, whereas Montreal is around 67 000 Canadian dollars.
Factor in the exchange rate and they are very close to one another.
Cost of living (except for housing) and taxes are cheaper in SF and housing is cheaper in Montreal.
As I said - overall it's basically a wash on this measure anyway.
Exactly. GDP datas have been published for as long as I can remember and I still can't find a way to relate to me personally, or how much I earn or should be earning and things like that. But median household income works better for a person like me, I guess, since I am not a billionaire or a manager at some fortune 500 firms.
The two cities seems to be doing well economically. I mean does Montreal looks poorer than San Francisco? Not to my naked eye anyway. And when one looks at their Median Household income:
San Francisco–Oakland–San Jose, California CMSA $63,024 (number 1 amongst US CMSA)
Montreal CMA, $67,010 (number 23 amongst Canadian metros)
They are very similar. But one thing I have to say about Montreal is that I think it's been hindered by the language law. Not that it would be at SF level if it wasn't there, but it can perhaps partly explain why its well above Canadian level.
And I think your second comment is just an opinion right? I like San Francisco a lot, but like the lifestyle of Montreal more personally. And the lifestyle argument I don't agree with. They are different, yes, but I don't even think SF itself have good weather. I like Montreal's climate much better myself, and can find plenty to do year round.
Your comparing apples and oranges stats. Your Montreal figure of 67k is average FAMILY income, while your SF is average per capita income. SF's family income was 81k in 2007 and 86k in 2010--probably about 90k now. Montreal is closer to 60-63k USD.
Also, as a Canadian who is now in the SF Bay Area, I can tell you that incomes are far higher in SF than Montreal, TO, etc. Way more jobs here paying over 100k or 200k. Montreal has very few jobs in those "higher" income brackets, especially for ppl in their 20s or even 30s.
Montreal is a nice quaint city, but it's economically desolate. High unemployment (8.4%), low incomes, but hey it's got "culture"...which SF has none of (eye roll)
Again, no idea how Montreal is leading in this poll. Weak economy and SF is the nicer looking city, with better weather and more attractions
GDP is actually a poor measure of how well off people are in a given place since you can have huge corporate profits that are only in the hands of a few and don't trickle down at all into the population.
Looking at median household income, SF is around 63 000 US dollars, whereas Montreal is around 67 000 Canadian dollars.
Factor in the exchange rate and they are very close to one another.
Cost of living (except for housing) and taxes are cheaper in SF and housing is cheaper in Montreal.
As I said - overall it's basically a wash on this measure anyway.
See my post above: your numbers are wrong since you're comparing SF's median income per capita (i.e. one person) with Montreal's median FAMILY income. It's far from a wash and your "corporate profits" comment is facile beyond belief
Also let's compare average salaries in the cities and unemployment rates:
Your comparing apples and oranges stats. Your Montreal figure of 67k is average FAMILY income, while your SF is average per capita income. SF's family income was 81k in 2007 and 86k in 2010--probably about 90k now. Montreal is closer to 60-63k USD.
Also, as a Canadian who is now in the SF Bay Area, I can tell you that incomes are far higher in SF than Montreal, TO, etc. Way more jobs here paying over 100k or 200k. Montreal has very few jobs in those "higher" income brackets, especially for ppl in their 20s or even 30s.
Montreal is a nice quaint city, but it's economically desolate. High unemployment (8.4%), low incomes, but hey it's got "culture"...which SF has none of (eye roll)
Again, no idea how Montreal is leading in this poll. Weak economy and SF is the nicer looking city, with better weather and more attractions
It says median household income there, and I can't verify since the census site is shut down.
StatsCan defines "household" differently at least in that link that you sent previously: it appeared to list average "family" income that's being shown. Otherwise, do you really think the average Ottawa household is 94k, while NYC is 58k? There are separate stats for average "family" income for US cities and these are naturally much higher. Like I showed before, SF was in the 81-87k area between 2007-10; now probably closer to 90k
StatsCan defines "household" differently at least in that link that you sent previously: it appeared to list average "family" income that's being shown. Otherwise, do you really think the average Ottawa household is 94k, while NYC is 58k? There are separate stats for average "family" income for US cities and these are naturally much higher. Like I showed before, SF was in the 81-87k area between 2007-10; now probably closer to 90k
So what does median household income mean then and how does it differ from family income? Please explain.
StatsCan defines "household" differently: as your previous link in the original post showed, it's the average "family" income that's being shown. Otherwise, do you really think the average Ottawa household is 94k, while NYC is 58k? There are separate stats for average "family" income for US cities and these are naturally much higher. Like I showed before, SF was in the 81-87k area between 2007-10; now probably closer to 90k
You may be right. I haven't look up how they define the term respectively. But generally speaking, statistics with the same name are defined in a way so that they can be compared with others, but I can see how they can differ from different census agencies. If you can find the exact parameters for Statistics Canada and US Census Bureau and post it here that would be great. Since these mostly pointless statistics come up so often.
I mean, maybe I am going to the wrong area but I don't see how people in Quebec are poor and becoming destitute. I go there a couple of times a year for work and for a hockey game or two, but I must be going to the wrong places. I am being sincere about this question. Do you mean like people who are recent immigrants? or is there a lack of luxury shops and shopping area in Montreal that makes it so economically inferior to San Francisco? I mean the only real difference I can see is the level of disposable income. Maybe the fact professionals in Montreal would have less disposable income than in San Francisco can be a big factor for some (or many) in terms of the overall quality of a city.
StatsCan defines "household" differently at least in that link that you sent previously: it appeared to list average "family" income that's being shown. Otherwise, do you really think the average Ottawa household is 94k, while NYC is 58k? There are separate stats for average "family" income for US cities and these are naturally much higher. Like I showed before, SF was in the 81-87k area between 2007-10; now probably closer to 90k
Median family income in Ottawa is 94000 - this is a statistical measure based on the income of the individuals.
Per capita GDP in Ottawa is around 40000 - this is a measure based on economic output - how much the local economy generates, divided by the number of people living there
There is a big difference between the two.
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