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If you don't want to talk about the future, you shouldn't have responded to my post since that is all I was talking about.
I don't think that 15 years in the future, Shaw rowhouses (or any of these rowhouse areas) will be demolished for highrise density. I doubt that would even be legal.
The highrises I see going up in DC are all on major arterials (Mass Ave., NY Ave., etc.) but the side streets are remaining lowrise and low density.
I don't see any side streets in DC where townhouses are being demolished for big buildings. Only the major avenues are getting the greater density. And even those major avenues aren't Manhattan-like.
You are making a comparison with Manhattan, and these neighborhoods are nothing like Manhattan. That's the reason some folks are incredulous.
Shaw isn't the "downtown core" anyways. Even Dupont isn't "downtown core". You go one block off Connecticut, and there are detached single family townhomes in Kalorama.
Connecicut Ave. is Brooklyn-like in density, even in the heart of Dupont. That's about as dense and vibrant as non-downtown DC gets.
Yet you're going much, much farther, and saying less dense areas, like Southwest, will be Manhattan-like in a few years, which sounds ridiculous.
I don't think that 15 years in the future, Shaw rowhouses (or any of these rowhouse areas) will be demolished for highrise density. I doubt that would even be legal.
The highrises I see going up in DC are all on major arterials (Mass Ave., NY Ave., etc.) but the side streets are remaining lowrise and low density.
I don't see any side streets in DC where townhouses are being demolished for big buildings. Only the major avenues are getting the greater density. And even those major avenues aren't Manhattan-like.
I was talking about major avenues. Haven't you been paying attention? Didn't you see my reference to 7th street, 9th street, 14th street, U Street, Florida Ave, North Capitol street etc. All those are main roads right next to each other which is all I have been talking about this whole time. Lining those streets with buildings in the 200-300 unit range creates the urban canyon environment I have been talking about and greatly increases density. When did I ever reference a side street? And once again, who said anything about any of this being built like Manhattan?
I was talking about major avenues. Haven't you been paying attention? Didn't you see my reference to 7th street, 9th street, 14th street, U Street, Florida Ave, North Capitol street etc. All those are main roads right next to each other which is all I have been talking about this whole time. Lining those streets with buildings in the 200-300 unit range creates the urban canyon environment I have been talking about and greatly increases density. When did I ever reference a side street? And once again, who said anything about any of this being built like Manhattan?
When you say the downtown footprint will be larger than Manhattan, wouldn't it be assumed you would be talking about side streets as well?
When you say the downtown footprint will be larger than Manhattan, wouldn't it be assumed you would be talking about side streets as well?
There are three story structures in Manhattan too. We mainly focus on the big avenues though. Aren't most downtown's a mixture of housing types? My point is, there will be a consistently built environment in the DC Core. That's pretty much all I said.
There are three story structures in Manhattan too. We mainly focus on the big avenues though. Aren't most downtown's a mixture of housing types? My point is, there will be a consistently built environment in the DC Core. That's pretty much all I said.
There are relatively few three story structures in Manhattan. The predominant built form consists of dense midrises and higher, with no front yards, and no alleys or back yards.
In contrast, in what you are calling "core" DC, there are tons and tons of 2 and 3 floor structures, including single family homes with front yards and back yards. The built environment has nothing to do with Manhattan, even in the densest parts.
DC's Downtown Core will eclipse Manhattan in square milage soon. The downtown footprint is growing at an alarming rate. DC will never come close to NYC on vibrancy, but DC will definetly rival NYC in consistent downtown development. In 2020, CBD level development will extend throught the following Neighborhoods.
West to East from:
1. FoggyBottom
2. Dupont Circle
3. Logan Circle/Mid City
4. Shaw/Penn Quarter
5. Mt. Vernon Triangle
6. NorthWest One
7. NOMA
8. Atlas District
North to South From:
1. Columbia Heights/MidCity/Dupont Circle/Shaw
2. Foggy Bottom/MidTown/Penn Quarter/Mt. Vernon Triangle/NorthWest One/NOMA/Atlas District
3. National Mall (Dead Zone)
4. SW Eco District
5. SW Waterfront/Capital Riverfront/Barracks Row
This area is bigger than the island of Manhattan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Single family homes in Shaw? Where? Are you talking about rowhouses? Also, many of those are already condo's or being converted to condo's. You are looking at this area in 2012 eyes by the way. I'm talking about what this area will be in 2020-2025. Most of this area will have a density of 40,000-70,000 people per square mile. What has happened in Logan Circle which is 60,000+ people per square mile is also happening in all these area's. Capital Riverfront is adding 8,000 units and NOMA is adding 10,000 units just to give you an example. I know it is hard for people that aren't planners to have vision mapping out what an area will look like which defies what their eyes currently see. If you followed development in DC closely though, you would cosign with me. The area's I have mapped out will be full of tightly packed 8-13 story residential buildings which is the exact height needed for the type of density I have pointed towards.
The bolded are the ones I will disagree with. Maybe the footprint but in type and concentration of development no match for NYC
Arlington VA has lots of development for a large footprint but wouldnt compare to DC in concentration of development as an example of to me where your argument and comparison to NYC falls short.
I dont think anyone is really saying the footprint isnt large. but for NYC what are you considering the footprint because to me if you are including all those areas it would include as the comparator in Manhattan say from the Battery to like 100+ street or at least contuity from those two; DC seems smaller than that space; maybe I am wrong as I dont the exact sq mileage
And that is without extending into places like Jersey City or DT BK
I don't see any side streets in DC where townhouses are being demolished for big buildings. Only the major avenues are getting the greater density. And even those major avenues aren't Manhattan-like.
They are squeezing them in there. Here are some examples.
The bolded are the ones I will disagree with maybe the footprint but in type and concentration of development no match for NYC
Arlington VA has lots of development for a large footprint but wouldnt compare to DC in concentration of development as an example of to me where your argument and comparison to NYC fall short.
I dont think anyone is really saying the footprint isnt large. but for NYC what are you considering the footprint because to me if you are including all those areas it would include as the comparator in Manhattan say from the Battery to like 100+ street or at least contuity from those two; DC seems smaller than than space maybe I wrong dont the exact sq mileage
And that is without extending into places like Jersey City or DT BK
Whatever, this is useless becuase I'm not disagreeing with you about DC being nothing like Manhattan. When I said rival Manhattan in consistent downtown development, I was talking about consistent development meaning lack of parking lots and open space. Why would I compare actual buildinds? DC has height limits. You guys are amazing.
I do beleive many area's will have a density around where Logan Circle is today in 15 years. That's from plans in place. DC is it's own city and doesn't have to be anything like NYC, Philly, or Boston. I was making a land comparison, that's it. The island of Manhattan is 23 miles. I was making a comparison to that. The DC Core is bigger than 23 miles. It will always have peaks and Valleys just like any other area. There is huge potential in Mt. Vernon Square, Northwest One, NOMA, Mid City, Shaw, Capital Riverfront, SW Waterfront, Atlas District, and Logan Circle. These area's will be the most densely populated. We can wait to see what the official numbers are in the 2020 census and 2030 census. Either way, DC is changing.
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