Columbus, OH vs Indianapolis, IN vs Cleveland, OH (compare, life, quality)

[Emrak]

A lot of fascinating commentary in this thread so far. I sincerely appreciate it! Keep it coming. Nothing is written in stone and while I'm currently focusing on Cleveland, I have a month to make my decision official, so I can always change if I discover greater assets elsewhere.

Thanks

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by Justabystander

I think Cleveland has great potential,because it was surprisingly much nicer and more beautiful that I thought it would be, but it really needs to attract people, although it seems you're able to attract movies, such as the John Travolta movie they were filming downtown when I was there.

There has been a massive effort in the city core -- believe me, Clevelanders are putting their money where their mouth is!!

Getting more feet on the streets:

21 new Downtown residential projects (2556 total new units):
1) Avenue District -- 56 units (completed 2012)
2) Lofts at Rosetta -- 97 units (completed 2013)
3) Reserve Square -- 218 units (completed 2013)
4) The Langston -- 318 units (completed 2013) NEW CONSTRUCTION
5) Residences at the Hanna -- 102 units (completed 2013)
6) The Seasons at Perk Park -- 33 units (completed 2013)
7) Schofield -- 55 units (under construction for fall 2014)
8 ) The 9 -- 104 units (under construction for fall 2014)
9) Swetland Building -- 80 units (under construction for fall 2014)
10) Truman Building -- 26 units (under construction for fall 2014)
11) Residences at 1717 -- 223 units (under construction for fall 2014)
12) MT Silver -- 39 units (under construction for fall 2014)
13) Flats East Bank Phase II -- 245 units (under construction for summer 2015) NEW CONSTRUCTION
14) 1750 Euclid Ave -- 217 units (planned for fall 2015) NEW CONSTRUCTION
15) 1224 Huron -- 9 units (planned for 2016)
16) Park-Southworth Buildings -- 34 units (planned for 2016)
17) May Company Building -- 350 units (planned for 2016)
18) Worthington Co. Warehouse -- 83 units (planned for 2016)
19) Lincoln Building -- 17 units (planned for 2016)
20) 1220 Huron -- 80 units (planned for 2016)
21) Garfield Building -- 170 units (planned for 2016)

7 new Downtown hotels (totaling 1887 new hotel rooms):
1) Aloft -- 150 rooms (completed 2012) NEW CONSTRUCTION
2) Westin -- 481 rooms (completed 2014)
3) The Metropolitan, Marriott Autograph Collection -- 150 rooms (under construction for fall 2014)
4) Kimpton Properties @ Schofield -- 120 rooms (under construction for winter 2014)
5) Drury Plaza Hotel -- 180 rooms (planned fall 2015 opening)
6) 30-story Hilton Convention Center Hotel -- 600 rooms (planned summer 2016 opening) NEW CONSTRUCTION
7) Le Meridien -- 206 rooms (planned winter 2016 opening)

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Justabystander

How can an honest assessment saying a city is empty and eerie be crapping on it? There is certainly no rivalry, I am a native Californian transplanted to Chicago, and have never heard of the term " little Chicago" frankly. I just told you Cleveland was nice looking, but when I was there, my group was at times the only ones in a restaurant; in a bar at night; my nine o clock flight out of the airport the only one left, and the taxi cab drivers were spilling their hearts out that they are hurting badly because of lack of business. I turned on the news, and the newscaster was saying that there were 40 homicides so far this year, compared with 20 this time only a couple of years ago. No offense to you, my friend, but you have to be more objective about your town, and quit being such a homer. If you visited other cities once in a while, you would see that unfortunately Cleveland is "empty".

What I thought was interesting is that in downtown Detroit, where i was the previous month, people were far more more optimistic about their town and its turnaround, even though I thought Cleveland was physically a nicer town.

I think Cleveland has great potential,because it was surprisingly much nicer and more beautiful that I thought it would be, but it really needs to attract people, although it seems you're able to attract movies, such as the John Travolta movie they were filming downtown when I was there. Believe me, there is no "sibling rivalry", I had no idea that the two were related.

I'm not denying you had this experience. But I'll admit, your comment of arriving back to "normalcy" in crowds back in Chicago seemed a bit of a cheap shot ... to classify Cleveland is somewhat pretty but totally dead town, is a bit disingenuous and it feeds in to the stereotype that Cleveland once rightly held: it's dead at night. That's not really the case anymore. If you don't believe me and think this is homerism, read comments by travelers to places like the J. Palen House in Ohio City or the Ritz on Public Square... Hell the Republicans and the Democrats are looking at Cleveland for their 2016 Conventions -- Cleveland's in the GOP Final 4 -- in part be cause of all the growth and excitement --- yes, I said "excitement" -- in town, esp downtown.

I don't live in Cleveland anymore, but visit family frequently -- several times/year, and I stay amazed at the vitality downtown that simply wasn't there even 5 years ago. The casino at the heart of town has much to do with that (there's now a 24/7 deli on Public Sq. in response), as well as the increased downtown living and restaurants, esp on E. 4th Street. Did you go to E. 4th, a charming restaurant alley that has the feel of Bourbon Street? Were you there on a Friday or Sat night? Did you go to the Warehouse District, whose W. 6th St clubs (and some on W. 9th) and restaurants are vibrant till past 2a ... every night? or did you go to some nondescript restaurant at the edge of town that may have been dead? Did you go to Ohio City, just across the Cuyahoga River, with its restaurants and micro-brews -- who's Market Sq District buzzes till 2:30a every night -- the time when Sam McNulty's 2 big bar/restaurants - Bier Markt and Market Garden Brewery -- close every 7 days/week. Did you go to the huge Town Hall restaurant that opened a year ago that stays busy until it's 2a closing time? Restaurants keep opening in the bunches in Ohio City, including a huge Mitchell's ice cream store/factory/art gallery... Did you check that out? ... you could have hopped a Red Line Rapid train over the river to Ohio City, or taken one of the 10 24/7 bus lines that go through there... or a cabbie -- I can bet cab drivers over to Ohio city aren't complaining of boredom, esp where occasionally they have to ferry a few over-indulged revelers back to their downtown apartment or hotels...

And when you went to the airport, maybe you could consider riding the Red Line rapid which usually has a considerable and growing amount of riders -- our Rapid was the 1st in the nation to connect downtown to it's main airport -- even decades before Chicago's Blue Line el was extended to O'Hare...

Fact is, really, there's hardly any Cleveland-size (medium sized) city that had the downtown foot-traffic of Chicago or New York... Those cities are several times larger and nobody -- irrespective misguided people, like the guy above who says Cleveland will never be in Chicago's class, believes Cleveland is trying to match or outdo Chicago -- that's lunacy. But compare Cleveland to Indy or Columbus (as did the OP), or even St. Louis, or Milwaukee or KC or even Baltimore, which is doing well, and you'll see the same level of activity/excitement.

Your airport comment was unfair too. Most medium-city airports close at night, some as early as 9p. Just last month I flew into busy Ft. Lauderdale on a 10:35p flight starving and couldn't find anything but a lone Dunkin Doughnuts because the airport was essentially closed and almost completely empty... mind you, we're talking highly sought-after Ft. Lauderdale.

... I'm not just taking shots at you, but asking you consider these things in the future before you make broad, 1st-impression stereotypical comments reflecting on a whole city...

[Toxic Toast]

I've never heard Cleveland called Little Chicago. I mean.....they are geographically segregated and on a lake so I guess? Is there a city more desperate to sound cool on city data than Cleveland? I can't think of one.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

I've never heard Cleveland called Little Chicago. I mean.....they are geographically segregated and on a lake so I guess? Is there a city more desperate to sound cool on city data than Cleveland? I can't think of one.

Your barbs are misplaced. Observers have used that term; nobody from Cleveland, present company included, has used that term.

[Toxic Toast]

According to a guy named LilChicagoCleveland on urban dictionary the nickname is real. How. About. That.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by TheProf

No disrespect meant, and appreciate hearing from an outsider who sounds sincere with his/her observations, but it always seems like Chicago people love to crap on Cleveland. I wonder if it's because Cleveland's often been called a "Little Chicago?" I wonder. Whereas Cleveland often wins high praise from New Yorkers and even Bostonians, Chicagoans are usually the most negative toward Cleveland... Perhaps its a Midwestern sibling rivalry thing, who knows?

Chicagoans are negative about every other place other than Chicago. Chicago is an insecure place in getting attention; hence the need to always compare everything to how much better Chicago is in this or that. The tallest building, biggest building with this or that. Couldn't stand living there. Nice city, along the lakefront, but after 6 months the novelty wore off and then it was just dealing with mean and cocky Chicagoans, many of whom are midwest farmers or farm town people moving to Chicago.

I can relate to the OP's feeling about being in a slower town and going back to a busier one. Leaving Chicago for New York City, then going back to lifeless Chicago. Chicago is empty compared to NYC.

[Maintainschaos]

^ Talk about making a thread into something it isn't. Christ.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by Justabystander

I just got back from Cleveland from business after a week. Here is what I saw as an outsider; a spiffed up city with no people, empty restaurants, stores, streets and just an eerie feeling that this nice looking downtown was hit with a neutron bomb, killing the inhabitants except for a lucky few. My co-workers noticed the exact same thing; the airport was empty, the rock and roll museum sparse, and very nice people who were hungry for human interaction pointing out the "world's largest chandelier" at Playhouse Square. The three taxicab drivers all complained that there was no business, and gave us business cards begging for rides to the airport later, one commenting that his days there are numbered, and he is moving to Houston. All I could wonder what was the tipping point for this poor, but nice looking, city to work and entice human bodies to its borders. Coming home to Chicago was a shock to the system, in that you had to readjust to the hustle and bustle of a busy airport and a busy city full of people.

'very nice people who were hungry for human interaction...' is not a cheap shot? I'm sure the cabbies gave you their business cards but were not begging for you to call them; most will or do in any city. Cabbies always say business is slow, except in Manhattan. Sorry, but I am in Chicawgo on business during the week and am not overwhelmed by its hustle and bustle. At night during the week, I've seen empty restaurants, bars etc on Rush, Division etc all the way up to Wrigleyville. Stopped in PJ Clarke's (where workers have major Chicawgo attitude) and no one is there at 9:00 but a couple-few people. Sorry, but the Loop can be and often is dead at night unless there is a special event. Summer weekends are busier; just like Cleveland but Cleveland is not alone in this empty or slow feeling. I was in Columbus: no one out downtown at night, other than that Short North area. St Louis, Atlanta etc.

Chicawgo can be slow as well so don't compare it to NYC, another annoying Chicawgo trait.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

According to a guy named LilChicagoCleveland on urban dictionary the nickname is real. How. About. That.

There you go...