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true, but I much prefer the new trend than the old downtown full of entertainment with few people actually living there. Don't know about you guys but I hate that sort of cities where downtown is primarily a commercial zone where people from the suburbs go for work and fun.
Downtown Toronto between Don Valley and Bathurst has 3% of the land but more than 200,000 people. Would be Canada's 20th largest city if standing alone.
I agree that it's a great thing to have thousands of more people living downtown which helps build up the core, but I think there needs to be a balance in how this is built out. I remember going to Singapore (a city state build entirely on condo living) and although everyone was crammed together, it was extremely boring with little to do. I was warned by many including relatives who lived there that it was not a very exciting place before I arrived. I found it nice, clean and had top tier food but I did find it boring, soul-less, and too corporate in a way (although uber wealthy). There are some nightlife areas but it seems limited for city state with so much density. This is why I don't believe ramming people in condos necessarily makes a place exciting. There's needs to parks, venues, entertainment districts and other amenities that pull people out & about. I'm not saying these things don't exist in Toronto because they do but it doesn't feel like it has been the focus in city planning. Without balance, it's work - go home - watch TV as usual - except in a condo as opposed to a house.
Another example is when I came home a couple of weekends ago. I like trying the restaurants/bars on Ossington Street but I noticed 2 overpriced condos going up on the strip and fewer bars open with much less foot traffic - it wasn't representative of being billed as one of the hottest strips in the city IMO. It felt better a couple of years ago to be honest. I'm sure there's a good chance that liquor licenses have been restricted by the condos. This is what I mean by balance in terms of development. Let the area be a full on district focused on food, bars, and music, why ruin it with condos!
And to keep on topic related to the thread, I believe every city should foster a little bit of NOLA in them instead of being all corporate.
Last edited by johnathanc; 08-14-2014 at 03:36 PM..
Well I tried to highlight some unique aspects of Toronto for you so on your next trip up here let us know in the T.O section and we will give you more ideas. I do get what you are saying but im not sure you have peeled through enough layers.
I get what it has, I myself went to Toronto because it was my personal choice for leisure this year. To be more specific, for musical events this summer.
Since Toronto in June, I have also seen Chicago, Detroit, Doha, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and London (briefly) and none of those were for leisure. All were for work, family reasons, checking up on our assets there (Chicago), or simply passing by but making a weekend stop nonetheless.
I could see myself live in Toronto, I could see myself living there right now, today, right this moment if I had to. It's in the mix with Miami, New York, Houston, Dallas, Washington, and Chicago as a frontrunner for the sort of environment I actually want to be in.
New Orleans is not. When I think of Toronto, I view it as a place that I could easily see life in, a place that I embrace visiting, every single time. When I look at New Orleans, I view it as an enjoyable place that I have to see as often as I can, because aside from being a visitor, there isn't as much cause for me to be there.
I'm already planning my next trek to Toronto, hint, it's going to be the next International Film Festival.
Does a non-Anglophone culture automatically translate into "better culture" in North America? It is like saying France has better culture than the UK.
Not at all, not what I meant to imply either. For one, I would rather live in a city in the Anglosphere, that's just my permanent comfort zone.
Though to your point, I didn't think of it that way. As it is, New Orleans is mostly a city in the Anglosphere and has been since it's Antebellum history with Louisiana started.
What I originally meant was that when you put Grand Rapids, Des Moines, Hartford, Springfield, Albany, Birmingham, Winston-Salem, Columbia, Lexington, London (Canada), Bakersfield, Visalia, Wichita, Quebec City, New Orleans in a group; all being same range or so in size (700,000 - 1.5 million) then two of those places definitely are different and stand-out than the others.
Toronto is so much bigger than New Orleans that this is an absolutely unfair comparison at face value, though the actual OP points draw it pretty close.
Anyone saying Toronto wins in terms of "culture" is straight-up ridiculous, however. NOLA is a unique and special place in terms of history, culture, local foods and atmosphere. Toronto just doesn't hold a candle to it in this regard. I have to believe every one of these people is 1) from Toronto (or a Canada wonk), or 2) has never experienced NOLA.
Saying Toronto doesn't hold a candle to the history and culture of NOLA is a case of the pot calling the kettle black really - do you know the history and cultures of Toronto well?.. Something like atmosphere is so subjective and individualistic I wouldn't go down that road personally... Toronto is a much larger city if anything it is harder to pin anything down is all im saying, but once you pin them down than there's more than meets the eye.
I get what it has, I myself went to Toronto because it was my personal choice for leisure this year. To be more specific, for musical events this summer.
Since Toronto in June, I have also seen Chicago, Detroit, Doha, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, and London (briefly) and none of those were for leisure. All were for work, family reasons, checking up on our assets there (Chicago), or simply passing by but making a weekend stop nonetheless.
I could see myself live in Toronto, I could see myself living there right now, today, right this moment if I had to. It's in the mix with Miami, New York, Houston, Dallas, Washington, and Chicago as a frontrunner for the sort of environment I actually want to be in.
New Orleans is not. When I think of Toronto, I view it as a place that I could easily see life in, a place that I embrace visiting, every single time. When I look at New Orleans, I view it as an enjoyable place that I have to see as often as I can, because aside from being a visitor, there isn't as much cause for me to be there.
I'm already planning my next trek to Toronto, hint, it's going to be the next International Film Festival.
I think if you frame your mind on a leisure visit to Toronto knowing what it has to offer and what you are interested in - many may actually find it offers rewards in kind. If you frame your mind on the fact that it is just another generic big city in Canada/U.S than that is all it will be Believe me, this to me isn't even levelling any type of comparison with NOLA..
Glad yer coming back up - post in the T.O section what you are interested in and what you have seen in previous visits and we will give you some suggestions!
Nightlife in T.O has shifted west of the core.. I think if people simply accept that fact it isn't as disastrous as made out to be because one district isn't what it used to be... Toronto has always been a city of transformation and for the most part this has served it well.
I agree that it's a great thing to have thousands of more people living downtown which helps build up the core, but I think there needs to be a balance in how this is built out. I remember going to Singapore (a city state build entirely on condo living) and although everyone was crammed together, it was extremely boring with little to do. I was warned by many including relatives who lived there that it was not a very exciting place before I arrived. I found it nice, clean and had top tier food but I did find it boring, soul-less, and too corporate in a way (although uber wealthy). There are some nightlife areas but it seems limited for city state with so much density. This is why I don't believe ramming people in condos necessarily makes a place exciting. There's needs to parks, venues, entertainment districts and other amenities that pull people out & about. I'm not saying these things don't exist in Toronto because they do but it doesn't feel like it has been the focus in city planning. Without balance, it's work - go home - watch TV as usual - except in a condo as opposed to a house.
Another example is when I came home a couple of weekends ago. I like trying the restaurants/bars on Ossington Street but I noticed 2 overpriced condos going up on the strip and fewer bars open with much less foot traffic - it wasn't representative of being billed as one of the hottest strips in the city IMO. It felt better a couple of years ago to be honest. I'm sure there's a good chance that liquor licenses have been restricted by the condos. This is what I mean by balance in terms of development. Let the area be a full on district focused on food, bars, and music, why ruin it with condos!
And to keep on topic related to the thread, I believe every city should foster a little bit of NOLA in them instead of being all corporate.
Good post.
There is a weird thinking amongst the population in most US and Canadian cities that entertainment and residences cannot comfortably co-exist. Every Condo development that goes up in Toronto should have a mix of retail. Places to shop, drink, eat and entertain themselves (This can be live music, bowling, billiards, karaoke, anything really) All these should be open as late as possible as well. Anyone who doesnt like it, can go buy a condo in the suburbs where they belong. A city is supposed to be loud, chaotic, crowded and vibrant all night long.
There are ways to build structures, where people can retire to their homes and not hear what is going on below them. Hotels run the same program and I dont see any of the guests complaining. Look at the "W" Brand, quite a few of them have a bar, lounge area, full service restaurant (with its own bar area) and a nightclub. The people that stay there are not all leisure travelers, some are there with their young families, others for business, so if the loud thumping going on at street level was such a nuisance then no one would stay there. You can accomplish the exact same thing when building a condo, but also making it a vibrant neighborhood where people live and play.
Many other cities foster this type of environment, including NOLA, so I do not see why it is such a huge deal.
Nightlife in T.O has shifted west of the core.. I think if people simply accept that fact it isn't as disastrous as made out to be because one district isn't what it used to be... Toronto has always been a city of transformation and for the most part this has served it well.
Agreed. More so on Queen St W, Ossington, etc and other western parts of T.O. is where nightlife is now concentrated. But overall it is more spread out than before. Midtown and Uptown Toronto for example have more nightlife than they did in the past. Overall, Toronto has good nightlife I'd say.
Generally, NOLA has a "specific" type of nightlife, while Toronto has a more "well rounded" nightlife (which it should have, due to its size).
With that said, this is still a very lopsided comparison. Toronto is a world class city and NOLA (though it is unique) is just a regional U.S. city.
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Believe me, this to me isn't even levelling any type of comparison with NOLA.. 
