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Grace Street has quite a lot more density at present, though I have been in the area recently and it did not seem like a particularly lively place. Many of the retail fronts are underutilized and the activity is not contiguous. I do not think it performs any better than Hillsborough in that sense. I think it is an apt comparison though because both streets have been historic 'spokes' branching off of downtown with a lot of important aspects of each city's identity linked to them, and both are still sort of 'diamonds in the rough'.
Not that Hillsborough is contiguous either... There are gaps between the downtown stretch (which is very underwhelming at the moment, but there are 4 highrises planned), the 1900-2800 stretch for NCSU and the 3700-3800 block of Hillsborough by Meredith College which has Raleigh Brewing Co, and Neomonde. Although worth noting the 1200 block of Hillsborough has now exploded and continues along Morgan Street into downtown on a different branch.
Of all the streets in Raleigh, Hillsborough is the one I would consider "most improved". Feels like a different city than it did several years ago. It is also the one with the most construction planned in the near future.
Raleigh's urban growth will be significantly more impactful, impressive and evident over the next few years versus a city like Richmond which already has a solid urban infrastructure. I prefer the Raleigh area because of what the Triangle offers as a whole. I actually prefer living and hanging out downtown Durham and Chapel Hill, smaller scale with just enough vibrancy to fill an urban void, great restaurants, bars, etc. Ultimately, Raleigh is on the cusp of fulfilling that larger urban Triangle experience, absolutely too much demand/momentum in the area. Still, it'll never have the rust/grit of Richmond which isn't really a necessity. Prime examples are Seattle and Portland that have built solid new urban hoods that could rate with any older historic hood with regard to energy, walkability, vibrancy, etc. I used to spend significant time in Seattle and was always perplexed as to why sunbelt cities struggled with building these kind of neighborhoods. All Raleigh has to do is get it right.
Last edited by Big Aristotle; 03-21-2017 at 04:48 PM..
Grace Street has quite a lot more density at present, though I have been in the area recently and it did not seem like a particularly lively place. Many of the retail fronts are underutilized and the activity is not contiguous. I do not think it performs any better than Hillsborough in that sense.
The activity definitely isn't contigous the length of Grace, but I didn't claim it was, either. Certainly the main half mile to 10-block stretch of both streets, Grace is not underutilized and is resoundingly more vibrant. I don't think this us really a point to be contested but I'll agree to disagree!
@big aristotle, the issue I have with Raleigh is while it is architecturally, structurally, and physically built the sane as Charlotte, there is no true urban neighborhood in Raleigh. There is nothing in Raleigh on the scale of South End, NoDa, etc. There is comparable neighborhoods to Ayrsley, Northgate, etc. The urbanization of Raleigh is just more suburbanization that is building up the core, but not truly urbanizing it. Kind of like what is going on in Metro Atlanta in Gwinnett County...
I can't agree that Raleigh's urbanization will be more impressive when Richmond's urban rebirth will still continue and will resonate more because it functions as a city more than a suburb, with the framework already in place of a city. Most Triangle residents I've seen on CD consider Downtown Durham/Chapel Hill/Carrboro as the urban nodes of the region. Richmond doesn't have that dynamic, yet there still are urban areas outside the city within the metro (like Petersburg)...
At any rate, I get that many people prefer Raleigh. As mentioned before, I enjoy things about Raleigh. The suburbia--Raleigh's "urbanization"--is not one of them, though...
I thought that I'd share this streetview from Google maps that shows just how rapidly Raleigh keeps changing. This particular street is on the SW corner of downtown. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7738...7i13312!8i6656
This particular short street was very distressed and it turned 180 degrees in a matter of less than two years. Scroll between 2009 and 2011 to see the dramatic shift by virtually traveling the street.
@big aristotle, the issue I have with Raleigh is while it is architecturally, structurally, and physically built the sane as Charlotte, there is no true urban neighborhood in Raleigh. There is nothing in Raleigh on the scale of South End, NoDa, etc. There is comparable neighborhoods to Ayrsley, Northgate, etc. The urbanization of Raleigh is just more suburbanization that is building up the core, but not truly urbanizing it. Kind of like what is going on in Metro Atlanta in Gwinnett County...
There are urban neighborhoods in the sense of having a walkable, human-scale place that integrates retail, recreation, and residential. The most significant difference between Raleigh and Charlotte is height. The main difference between Raleigh/Charlotte and Richmond is age.
Hillsborough Street is Raleigh's South End. Five Points is Raleigh's NoDa. NoDa is tiny by the way. 2 blocks.
Quote:
Most Triangle residents I've seen on CD consider Downtown Durham/Chapel Hill/Carrboro as the urban nodes of the region. Richmond doesn't have that dynamic, yet there still are urban areas outside the city within the metro (like Petersburg)...
Over downtown Raleigh? That is laughable. I live in Carrboro, and I'm laughing. Chapel Hill/Carrboro have a nice little downtown, punching well above its weight for its size, nowhere close to Raleigh though. Durham has a slightly different set of issues from other NC cities, with a greater trove of historic structures in its core but most are still sitting empty to this day--very much like Richmond on a smaller scale in some ways. It's made strides and has more than Chapel Hill for sure, but probably half as much as Raleigh.
There are urban neighborhoods in the sense of having a walkable, human-scale place that integrates retail, recreation, and residential. The most significant difference between Raleigh and Charlotte is height. The main difference between Raleigh/Charlotte and Richmond is age.
Hillsborough Street is Raleigh's South End. Five Points is Raleigh's NoDa. NoDa is tiny by the way. 2 blocks.
Over downtown Raleigh? That is laughable. I live in Carrboro, and I'm laughing. Chapel Hill/Carrboro have a nice little downtown, punching well above its weight for its size, nowhere close to Raleigh though. Durham has a slightly different set of issues from other NC cities, with a greater trove of historic structures in its core but most are still sitting empty to this day--very much like Richmond on a smaller scale in some ways. It's made strides and has more than Chapel Hill for sure, but probably half as much as Raleigh.
What is Durham's issues and why are the buildings sitting empty?
What is Durham's issues and why are the buildings sitting empty?
Durham has a tremendous amount of poverty. It suffered from white flight in its downtown, in addition to the economic issues RTP created. There was less business presence in downtown Durham in the 70s and 80s than any other city in NC, so it has no skyline. However it was a larger city than Raleigh for some of its history and it has a good trove of historic structures left. So revitalization has mostly involved refurbishing those and getting businesses into them, much like Richmond. Durham's made some great strides and many people love it because the grittiness plus the new hipstery things in it give it a lot of character.
Raleigh is like that baby brother who's growing up to be bigger than many of his siblings. He keeps getting knocked around and dismissed by his many brothers but he continues to grow bigger and smarter every day.
Raleigh is like that baby brother who's growing up to be bigger than many of his siblings. He keeps getting knocked around and dismissed by his many brothers but he continues to grow bigger and smarter every day.
Exactly! Very good analogy.. I think the latest metro/city numbers come out tomorrow as well.
The activity definitely isn't contigous the length of Grace, but I didn't claim it was, either. Certainly the main half mile to 10-block stretch of both streets, Grace is not underutilized and is resoundingly more vibrant. I don't think this us really a point to be contested but I'll agree to disagree!
@big aristotle, the issue I have with Raleigh is while it is architecturally, structurally, and physically built the sane as Charlotte, there is no true urban neighborhood in Raleigh. There is nothing in Raleigh on the scale of South End, NoDa, etc. There is comparable neighborhoods to Ayrsley, Northgate, etc. The urbanization of Raleigh is just more suburbanization that is building up the core, but not truly urbanizing it. Kind of like what is going on in Metro Atlanta in Gwinnett County...
I can't agree that Raleigh's urbanization will be more impressive when Richmond's urban rebirth will still continue and will resonate more because it functions as a city more than a suburb, with the framework already in place of a city. Most Triangle residents I've seen on CD consider Downtown Durham/Chapel Hill/Carrboro as the urban nodes of the region. Richmond doesn't have that dynamic, yet there still are urban areas outside the city within the metro (like Petersburg)...
At any rate, I get that many people prefer Raleigh. As mentioned before, I enjoy things about Raleigh. The suburbia--Raleigh's "urbanization"--is not one of them, though...
Youre obviously a Charlotte Troll.
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