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@epicene, but in any realistic measure besides Raleigh's New South growth, it is not "ahead" of Richmond on a pound-for-pound scale....
Clearly, Richmond has the larger, livelier downtown, and certainly doesn't 'feel' smaller than Raleigh. Charlotte clearly feels like a larger city---Raleigh, not so much. All of this hyper growth in Raleigh the last 20 years, still hasn't built a larger core, bore a more creative class, or a more sophisticated personality, than Richmond.....note, not that Raleigh lacks any of the aforementioned characteristics. Only that this growth surge you champion has yet to build Raleigh as a truly greater city....
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Livability is subjective, but Richmond clearly offers more diversity in retail, dining, and business. Richmond probably loses in higher ed, but not by much, as UR and VCU hold up well against NC State. City-to-city, the higher ed is really a toss up, though admittedly, higher ed in the greater Triangle is the sure winner...
Bottom line is many misinformed people seem to believe Richmond is stagnant and has just stopped growing. Point of fact, it's not going to attract the same people a city like Raleigh does because while that whole "New South" thing is appealing to some, Richmond is a city's city---urban, walkable, educated, economically diverse, geographically appealing, visibly active, and offers an array of architecture and districts that have no parallel to anything in Raleigh (Mayo Island, Church Hill, The Fan, Carytown, I can name probably a dozen more neighborhoods)--hell, Manchester is a city within the city and has no equal counterpart within Raleigh. These areas offer retail, dining, and quality of life in some mixture that Raleigh doesn't even have...
Richmond is growing just fine. The city is back over 220,000 and feels larger than that, ESPECIALLY if Raleigh is the comparison base. The Triangle as a whole is stronger than Greater Richmond, no argument there....
But if we were trying to sell someone on living within the city limits of either city, Richmond has a good bit more strengths than Raleigh. People on here love hating on Richmond and calling it small, and yet Richmond is so much more evocative and aesthetically appealing than several "larger" cities on the East Coast. That certainly includes Raleigh....
Nope, I'm not going to even entertain a list wars of amenities and things to do in each city. Raleigh clearly has what people want in a real city as well. It's still a lot bigger than Richmond, and it's outpacing it in growth (Facts). A lot of the things you listed as pluses over Raleigh are subjective, and keeps us going in circles. As far as you saying people love hating on Richmond...um have you seen this poll? Raleigh is hated on more, and not just on this particular side of the site lol. Let's not bring Charlotte into this, as I feel that takes us away from what we're discussing here, right now.
I get some of you may feel Richmond is a more complete city than Raleigh, and I can see the argument being made that it feels larger than Raleigh, despite the population difference. Facts are facts though, and the facts are Raleigh is ahead according to the #'s in both population and growth trends.
Last edited by epicene101; 02-03-2016 at 03:55 PM..
Nope, I'm not going to even entertain a list wars of amenities and things to do in each city. Raleigh clearly has what people want in a real city as well. It's still a lot bigger than Richmond, and it's outpacing it in growth (Facts). A lot of the things you listed as pluses over Raleigh are subjective, and keeps us going in circles. As far as you saying people love hating on Richmond...um have you seen this poll? Raleigh is hated on more, and not just on this particular side of the site lol. Let's not bring Charlotte into this, as I feel that takes us away from what we're discussing here, right now.
I get some of you may feel Richmond is a more complete city than Raleigh, and I can see the argument being made that it feels larger than Raleigh, despite the population difference. Facts are facts though, and the facts are Raleigh is ahead according to the #'s in both population and growth trends.
I don't think anyone hates on Raleigh and Charlotte - they're great places for a variety of reasons. Nevertheless, people do like to remind the boosters of those cities not to get too carried away with themselves saying things like "Raleigh is so much bigger than X city," or "Charlotte is so much more urban than Z city." For those who have been to those cities, it's easy to vouch for their clean, fun and growing vibrancy. But let's not pretend that either of them are the epitome of urban living and amenities. Certainly not Raleigh - but that's not really Raleigh's game. It's why I feel comfortable saying that a city like Richmond may offer something a bit more earthy, unique and off-beat in terms of urban culture, walkability and vibrancy that Raleigh would not have. On the other hand, Raleigh has an enterprising side and energy that is in many ways, the envy of the Southeast.
As far as population goes, it's true that Raleigh and the Triangle are growing at a breakneck pace. But Raleigh proper (at 145 sq. miles) also covers a much larger geographic area than Richmond (62 sq. miles). If Richmond covered that much area within its metro, it would also appear significantly larger on paper because it'scentrally denser. I like to see projects in the Triangle that aim to densify the core cities, and Raleigh in particular. Raleigh's core has come leaps and bounds in the last several years, but the city should have a much larger downtown for its size.
@epicene, but in any realistic measure besides Raleigh's New South growth, it is not "ahead" of Richmond on a pound-for-pound scale....
Clearly, Richmond has the larger, livelier downtown, and certainly doesn't 'feel' smaller than Raleigh. Charlotte clearly feels like a larger city---Raleigh, not so much. All of this hyper growth in Raleigh the last 20 years, still hasn't built a larger core, bore a more creative class, or a more sophisticated personality, than Richmond.....note, not that Raleigh lacks any of the aforementioned characteristics. Only that this growth surge you champion has yet to build Raleigh as a truly greater city....
Livability is subjective, but Richmond clearly offers more diversity in retail, dining, and business. Richmond probably loses in higher ed, but not by much, as UR and VCU hold up well against NC State. City-to-city, the higher ed is really a toss up, though admittedly, higher ed in the greater Triangle is the sure winner...
Bottom line is many misinformed people seem to believe Richmond is stagnant and has just stopped growing. Point of fact, it's not going to attract the same people a city like Raleigh does because while that whole "New South" thing is appealing to some, Richmond is a city's city---urban, walkable, educated, economically diverse, geographically appealing, visibly active, and offers an array of architecture and districts that have no parallel to anything in Raleigh (Mayo Island, Church Hill, The Fan, Carytown, I can name probably a dozen more neighborhoods)--hell, Manchester is a city within the city and has no equal counterpart within Raleigh. These areas offer retail, dining, and quality of life in some mixture that Raleigh doesn't even have...
Richmond is growing just fine. The city is back over 220,000 and feels larger than that, ESPECIALLY if Raleigh is the comparison base. The Triangle as a whole is stronger than Greater Richmond, no argument there....
But if we were trying to sell someone on living within the city limits of either city, Richmond has a good bit more strengths than Raleigh. People on here love hating on Richmond and calling it small, and yet Richmond is so much more evocative and aesthetically appealing than several "larger" cities on the East Coast. That certainly includes Raleigh....
I don't think anyone hates on Raleigh and Charlotte - they're great places for a variety of reasons. Nevertheless, people do like to remind the boosters of those cities not to get too carried away with themselves saying things like "Raleigh is so much bigger than X city," or "Charlotte is so much more urban than Z city." For those who have been to those cities, it's easy to vouch for their clean, fun and growing vibrancy. But let's not pretend that either of them are the epitome of urban living and amenities. Certainly not Raleigh - but that's not really Raleigh's game. It's why I feel comfortable saying that a city like Richmond may offer something a bit more earthy, unique and off-beat in terms of urban culture, walkability and vibrancy that Raleigh would not have. On the other hand, Raleigh has an enterprising side and energy that is in many ways, the envy of the Southeast.
As far as population goes, it's true that Raleigh and the Triangle are growing at a breakneck pace. But Raleigh proper (at 145 sq. miles) also covers a much larger geographic area than Richmond (62 sq. miles). If Richmond covered that much area within its metro, it would also appear significantly larger on paper because it'scentrally denser. I like to see projects in the Triangle that aim to densify the core cities, and Raleigh in particular. Raleigh's core has come leaps and bounds in the last several years, but the city should have a much larger downtown for its size.
I find Raleigh very vibrant, current, safe, and energetic. It may not feel as urban to some as Richmond does, but it offers a balance that is hard to overlook. Raleigh also has a growing midtown (North Hills) that has its own vibe. It's a growing city, and it's urban core is growing with its population. It's not going to rush itself to get where others feel it should be. It's growing fast, but organically. That is what's going to sustain the city in the long run, and keep it from burning out quickly.
Also, when I visit DT Raleigh/Glenwood South (especially spring-summer-early fall) it's very lively and people seem to enjoy the amenities it has to offer. I mean new apartments/condos, hotels, restaurants are always popping up. The demand is there. I know Raleigh isn't everyone's cup of tea, but I feel like it's where it needs to be, no more no less.
I will say Raleigh's downtown core I don't think is even seeing the most development its outside the core where so much is going on....North Hills is building up at a crazy rate.
The worst thing about the Triangle is that it seems like far-off suburban areas (Eastern Chatham County, Clayton, etc) seem to be growing faster than areas like Raleigh's downtown core and North Hills. I'd rather not see a town like Clayton turn into another Cary. However, this can't be helped because the area still has the whole "settle down and start a family" reputation despite newer apartment complexes popping up around downtown, North Hills, Cameron Village, or Crabtree.
Richmond makes me jealous in some ways. That city clearly has more of a soul, while Raleigh holds more of a glitzy "New South" image. Being a history buff, I always love visiting Richmond. It's also more of my kind of city, while I could take or leave the preppy/trendy vibe I pick up in Raleigh. Really, it's like the entire city of Raleigh is trying to turn into Atlanta's Buckhead neighborhood or a more southern version of Austin. However, Richmond is still not on the same level as Raleigh and the Triangle as a whole in some departments. One flight leaves RDU for London a day, not exactly the same situation in Richmond. That should say enough.
I'm in Raleigh today. My girlfriend is an NC State dropout, and we came down today to try to re-enroll for 2016-2017. This was my first time on campus of NC State. We also went to Crabtree, and we're at her aunt's home right now...
Once again, I am struck by the lack of vibrancy in the core. Downtown Raleigh is reminiscent of Uptown Charlotte in general build and landscape, but without the vibrancy. Also, buildings are much more spaced out, seemingly, than the buildings in Uptown Charlotte. I can see there is some buildup in the core, but it seems most of Raleigh's growth is coming in the fringes of town, or at least in outer neighborhoods...
This was also my first time on the oft-covered Hillsborough Street, and while it has a comfortable vibe and character, it lacks the energy of an inner city avenue, especially one that runs through a large university campus. I've been previously to Fayetteville Street, and I have much of the same complaint. NCSU and VCU have similar size, and both are located near downtown, and you can visit both at the same time of day and feel a much larger gravity around VCU. Even away from the campuses, Downtown Richmond has much, much more pedestrian traffic than Downtown Raleigh...
I'm having fun today, though. I've always thought of Raleigh as "livable", it just isn't my kind of city...
NCSU and VCU have similar size, and both are located near downtown, and you can visit both at the same time of day and feel a much larger gravity around VCU.
VCU is a good bit more integrated into downtown Richmond than NCSU is into downtown Raleigh. VCU is within the downtown grid whereas NCSU's campus has a more inner suburban layout.
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