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There are rude people everywhere. I think you're over exaggerating a bit, but yes NoVa doesn't have southern hospitality or that laid back west coast feel. Since I went to college in Boston and lived there for awhile, I don't think NoVa is that bad. Maybe it depends where you were at?
Maybe you were in Fairfax county, cause yes you have a lot of entitled yuppies. Or were you in Middleburg with the snobby old money types? I would suggest the next time you come go out into Fredericksburg or areas of Stafford. Also, western Loudoun it will definitely change your view! When I lived in Northern NJ and was in NYC a lot because of work I thought all New Yorkers were rude which is really not the case. Met some really down to earth people in Queens and Staten Island.
I agree, there are rude and nice people everywhere. I just seem to run into more of the rude ones in NoVa/D.C. than anywhere else, for some reason.
I have been to all of the places you mention, and they are nice. I always head out to Lessburg, as I have friends there and I love their little Downtown.
There are some nice people there, as there are anywhere.
Perhaps you have become numb to it by living there, but it was way more than a single bad experience. It has been many, over many years.
There is a rudeness and superficiality to the culture that totally turns me off, sorry.
I didn't say there were no rude people, I just thought it was incredibly ignorant of you to say everyone there is rude & mean. now that you have corrected yourself i have no problem agreeing with you. I actually live in Leesburg, & find it to be one of the nicer areas of NOVA. But I wouldn't choose a place to live based on how nice people are anyways. Is it a bonus to have nice people? Yes. But it isn't a top factor for me when choosing a place to live
Eh. I feel like a poll would be better, maybe someone should start a Northern VA vs. Triangle thread
Also using some criteria as well.
I thought about creating one, but I feel it is kind of an unfair advantage to the Research Triangle considering it is the combined suburbs of 3 medium sized cities vs the super region that is NoVa
It's true that Richmond has a great stock of historic row houses though. Raleigh has historic neighborhoods but nothing quite as grand.
Well, there is a difference between urbanity and vertical sprawl. When it's all finished Dubai could be more dense than Paris, but the latter is a real city with living, breathing streets, and the former is a car dependent wasteland. A suburb full of skyscrapers.
Arlington has some character to it, and it represents to some extent what the Triangle can expect in the future when it gets a rail system of its own. But I've been to Rosslyn and Ballston and some of the other 'nodes' in NOVA. Those seemed very office parkish. None of it had the street level activity or funkyness that downtown Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill have. There was some culture... it wasn't Dubai for sure, but I think you're being wholly disingenuous claiming these places have more urban character than Raleigh just by posting the skylines. NOVA still feels very suburban and very auxiliary to Washington itself, which is not in Virginia.
I would never call Raleigh ugly. It has a boat load of charm and there isn't a more beautiful spring anywhere else (not even in Richmond).
Note that Raleigh's downtown density is 6000/sq mi. While that is still lower, it's not the lightyears difference that you're portraying. It's not as if the whole of the Triangle is sprawl, as you seem to be portraying. That's pretty good actually for a southern city that developed mostly in the past 50 years, without the help of a major employment center out of state to supercharge its economy.
But I find this curious because this is a thread about Raleigh vs Richmond, and Richmond's own 3400/sq mi density has been conveniently overlooked.
Ah ah ah, apples to apples! You can't compare Raleigh's downtown density to Richmond's overall density - and then incongruously leave out Richmond's own downtown density. And I'm really not even sure where you've gotten your number from.
Using citydata,
Raleigh's downtown population density (zip 27601) is 4,894 ppsm
Richmond's downtown population density (zip 23220) is 6,970 ppsm
Using Census,
Raleigh's overall density is 2,826.3 ppsm
Richmond's overall density is 3,414.7 ppsm
Pretty much, even a superficial "look" at the two downtowns will tell you which is denser. Not that it's tremendously different, but Richmond has areas of even greater peak density that Raleigh simply won't have because of its build. That's just a fact - the development patterns are different.
In NC, I love Wilmington, Asheville, the Triad cities, and my choice city of the Triangle is Durham. I guess my main problem with Raleigh (and to a lesser extent Charlotte) is that they can feel so contrived to me, like this isn't a "real" city. They're pretty and Charlotte is especially gleaming, but something's missing for me. idk, my $0.02.
Ah ah ah, apples to apples! You can't compare Raleigh's downtown density to Richmond's overall density - and then incongruously leave out Richmond's own downtown density. And I'm really not even sure where you've gotten your number from.
I was comparing Raleigh and NoVA. Just illustrating the point that "nothing in the Triangle comes close in density" as a claim is false. I also posted Raleigh's total density as well as Richmond's, and my numbers were a true apples to apples comparison since they were from the same year... unlike yours.
Quote:
Using citydata,
Raleigh's downtown population density (zip 27601) is 4,894 ppsm
Richmond's downtown population density (zip 23220) is 6,970 ppsm
Using Census,
Raleigh's overall density is 2,826.3 ppsm
Richmond's overall density is 3,414.7 ppsm
The 2013 census estimates for density for both cities are -
Raleigh - 3,023.4/sq mi
Richmond - 3,414.7/sq mi
Quote:
Pretty much, even a superficial "look" at the two downtowns will tell you which is denser. Not that it's tremendously different, but Richmond has areas of even greater peak density that Raleigh simply won't have because of its build. That's just a fact - the development patterns are different.
It's true that Richmond's is denser, though it is closer than you give credit.
In NC, I love Wilmington, Asheville, the Triad cities, and my choice city of the Triangle is Durham. I guess my main problem with Raleigh (and to a lesser extent Charlotte) is that they can feel so contrived to me, like this isn't a "real" city. They're pretty and Charlotte is especially gleaming, but something's missing for me. idk, my $0.02.
You love Greensboro but Raleigh feels contrived, like it isn't a "real" city. That sounds rather inconsistent.
I was comparing Raleigh and NoVA. Just illustrating the point that "nothing in the Triangle comes close in density" as a claim is false. I also posted Raleigh's total density as well as Richmond's, and my numbers were a true apples to apples comparison since they were from the same year... unlike yours.
The 2013 census estimates for density for both cities are -
Raleigh - 3,023.4/sq mi
Richmond - 3,414.7/sq mi
It's true that Richmond's is denser, though it is closer than you give credit.
In terms of density, it's probably not the best to compare Raleigh or even Richmond to NoVA. Arlington County's 2010 density was 7,993.6 ppsm, calculated at 8,309 ppsm in 2013. The city of Alexandria was 9,314.3 in 2010; Fall's Church was 6,169.1 and even Tysons Corner's was 4,593.43 ppsm in 2010. Obviously, they're even higher now and NoVA can have some intense peak densities in particular areas. I don't think it's a particularly good comparison in this regard, but in terms of lifestyle and industry maybe.
And same year, eh? Are you sure? You've got the Raleigh 2013 density estimate but you're using the Richmond 2010 estimate. Both of mine are from 2010 ( Raleigh - Raleigh (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau and Richmond - Richmond city QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau ) and come from the census. Now, RVA's Wikipedia hasn't been updated to put in an estimate for Richmond's 2013 density and Raleigh's appears slightly off based on the new data supplied by the census.
But if you are going to calculate the new density based on the estimated 2013 pop, that's fine. It becomes:
Raleigh - 2013 est. pop - 431,746/142.9 sq mi =3021.31 ppsm
Richmond - 2013 est. pop - 214,114/59.81 sq mi = 3579.9 ppsm
So, I'm still not sure what the Raleigh wiki page is using for it's est. Still doesn't change the outcome either way. For consistency's sake, I think 2010, which is specifically listed and calculated by the census. Probably better than trying to come up with it on one's own.
You love Greensboro but Raleigh feels contrived, like it isn't a "real" city. That sounds rather inconsistent.
While my feelings are not everyone's, specifically, I was thinking of Winston-Salem, but Greensboro is pretty nice too. As a package, they're authentic and that authenticity is what makes a city feel like a city imo. They look and feel like actual places that came together organically as opposed to overnight as though they were specifically trying (too hard) to impress someone. I think Greensboro isn't bad https://www.flickr.com/photos/waynes...55522/sizes/o/. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who love living in downtown Raleigh!
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