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And I was wondering when someone would identify CNN as a factor contributing to Atlanta’s influence. Your example of NBC being headquartered at 30 Rock provides a good rationale for why Atlanta doesn’t get a big national boost from CNN. Just as most people don’t think of Atlanta when they pop open a Coke, I don’t think they associate CNN with Atlanta when they turn on the news.
Then explain why CNN Center is a tourist attraction.
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The only backdrops I see on CNN broadcasts are Columbus Circle or the US capitol.
Then you obviously don't watch at night or on the weekends, as the backdrop is either Downtown or Midtown Atlanta. And all of CNN International is broadcast from here.
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As far as these 2 national networks go, Philly and Atlanta are where the bean counters sit.
Wrong. Time Warner designates Atlanta as the HQ's of CNN and TBS. TBS has their own impressive compound housing all of their networks and studios adjacent to Georgia Tech in Midtown. The bean counters are in New York, HR is in Tampa.
It is pretty clear that you don't grasp what this discussion is about, but it is beyond clear that you are hellbent on dismissing any influence that Atlanta may happen to have in any category.
Then explain why CNN Center is a tourist attraction.
Then you obviously don't watch at night or on the weekends, as the backdrop is either Downtown or Midtown Atlanta. And all of CNN International is broadcast from here.
Wrong. Time Warner designates Atlanta as the HQ's of CNN and TBS. TBS has their own impressive compound housing all of their networks and studios adjacent to Georgia Tech in Midtown. The bean counters are in New York, HR is in Tampa.
It is pretty clear that you don't grasp what this discussion is about, but it is beyond clear that you are hellbent on dismissing any influence that Atlanta may happen to have in any category.
Sorry, but don’t buy CNN makes ATL the end all as you do. I have CNN on now and there is the US Capitol again right behind Joe Johns. On a Sunday. We have tourists here, as well, as you may know. Likely more than ATL. Lots of US history here.
And I do grasp the convo. I have an advance degree (though it’s not in spelling.) I’m a big guy, however, so a dismissive snarky comment by someone I don’t know and will never meet is on you, not me.
Sorry, but don’t buy CNN makes ATL the end all as you do. I have CNN on now and there is the US Capitol again right behind Joe Johns. On a Sunday. We have tourists here, as well, as you may know. Likely more than ATL. Lots of US history here.
And I do grasp the convo. I have an advance degree (though it’s not in spelling.) I’m a big guy, however, so a dismissive snarky comment by someone I don’t know and will never meet is on you, not me.
When did anyone here say CNN makes Atlanta the 'end all' of anything? And right now Dr. Gupta is on CNN from HQ's with Atlanta as the background.
You are clearly are on a mission here to discredit, dismiss and insult Atlanta. You may be a 'big guy,' but you are coming across as a big jerk with a nasty agenda.
All the talk about influence is rather vague and when you start talking about media, GDP, etc., things start to get off-topic. If you're talking about influence with respect to the topic at hand, then I think you're talking about geographic spheres of influence as I mentioned earlier. Atlanta's closest peer metros are several hundred miles away and it has long been dubbed as the unofficial capital of the Southeast due to the outsized role it plays in the region. Philly is different in that its sphere of influence is geographically constrained by NYC to the north and Pittsburgh to the west, and even by Wilmington to an extent (which serves as the commercial and cultural hub of its state) which is in the same metro.
Talking about which metro is more influential overall is more nebulous, but when you talk about which metro plays the greater role as a regional hub and exerts more influence over a larger geographical area, I think most reasonable people can see that would be Atlanta, primarily for the reasons laid out above.
Cities like Atlanta have already established themselves and are already in the public eye, its GDP is growing faster than Philly as well so you really can't say wealth is favoring the Northeast anymore either.
Interestingly, GDP growth is similar in both metro areas, despite much faster job growth in Atlanta. I think this speaks to a much more "efficient" economy in Philly, at least in terms of wealth creation, and really shows how far Philly has progressed in the "innovation" economy (all data sourced from the Bureau of Economic Analysis; 2016 is the latest full year available):
Atlanta (2011-2016)
Metro Job Growth: 455.8K
Metro GDP Growth: 83 Billion
Per Capita GDP Growth (GDP per job added): $182,097
Philadelphia (2011-2016)
Metro Job Growth: 196.2K
Metro GDP Growth: 75 Billion
Per Capita GDP Growth (GDP per job added): $382,263
In terms of sprawl, Atlanta. In terms of density, Phila.
So if the Atlanta area "sprawls" farther out than Philly, that would suggest that Atlanta is a physically larger region, what in turn would make it feel like a bigger region.
So if the Atlanta area "sprawls" farther out than Philly, that would suggest that Atlanta is a physically larger region, what in turn would make it feel like a bigger region.
And this is where we get down to brass tacks.
The Atlanta MSA (2017 Census estimate: 5,884,736, +11.3% from a year ago) has fewer people than the Philadelphia MSA (6,096,120, +2.19%), though the difference (as of the latest Census estimates) is only 200,000 and shrinking: the Philadelphia MSA is now the nation's 7th biggest and Atlanta its 8th.
The stats that follow pertain only to the urbanized area of the respective MSAs.
In terms of land area, Atlanta's urbanized area, which sprawls across 26 of Georgia's much smaller counties (there are more counties in Georgia than in any other US state but Texas, due to the way votes had been counted in state elections in the past), encompasses a larger territory than Philadelphia's: 2,645 square miles for Atlanta and 1,981 for Philadelphia, whose MSA includes five counties in Pennsylvania, four in New Jersey, and one each in Delaware and Maryland.
In terms of urbanized area population, the difference is larger: Philadelphia ranks fifth, with a UA population of 5,441,567, while Atlanta is in ninth place, with 4,515,419 (these figures are from the 2010 Census, so the gap has shrunk since then).
This makes urbanized Philadelphia significantly more dense than urbanized Atlanta: 2,746.4 people/square mile in Philadelphia, 1,706.9 in Atlanta.
Were we to take the entire territory defined by the constituent counties (I can't seem to get my hands on land area figures for those easily), the densities would drop in both cases, and probably by more for Philadelphia, for there remains significant amounts of non-urbanized land in its 11 counties (much of Burlington and parts of Camden and Gloucester counties lie in the Pinelands, a national natural land preserve where development is restricted, for instance). But Philadelphia would remain significantly denser than Atlanta.
So if your definintion of "massive" hinges on density in some way, Philadelphia comes out on top; if it simply rests on territory, Atlanta wins by a mile - or rather, hundreds of square miles.
Economically, overall, Philadelphia still outranks Atlanta too: its gross metropolitan product (GDP produced within the metropolitan area) in 2017 was $433.9 billion, the nation's eighth-biggest, while Atlanta's was $371.2 billion, putting it in 10th place. The one comparative stat where the places are reversed I found was on that Globalization and World Cities list so many of us here on C-D (including me) like to cite. There, the two cities do fall into different subgroups of the same class: Atlanta is a Beta+ world city while Philadelphia is a Beta world city.
That list is based in part on what one might term "interconnectedness" of its various sectors, though it does include GDP in "traded sectors" - that is, economic activities that cross metropolitan and national borders. That's where things get a little more nebulous in terms of hard data.
So if we want to go by the numbers, as of now, Atlanta clearly outranks Philadelphia only in physical size of its metropolitan area and its global connectedness. (I didn't check the number of Fortune 500 companies based in each metro.) The answer may boil down to whether you prefer your metro denser or less dense. Overall, the two are quite close on just about every metric imaginable - neither "blows the other out of the water" on any of them save physical territory, where Atlanta could swallow Philadelphia whole and have room for half of it again, and population density, in which Philadelphia does significantly outdistance Atlanta.
You're not in DC/Baltimore you're either in the Baltimore area or the DC area. 100 miles from Philly will put you in the Baltimore area.
Atlanta absolutely has more influence than Philly.
This is where the thread went downhill. Talking strictly about GEOGRAPHIC area, yet Atlanta has more influence because there is no other dominant city nearby. Philadelphia is in the Bos-Wash corridor, several large powerful cities (Philadelphia included).
Now talking about which metro area is more influential... I guess people translate that term differently, but I would say the Philadelphia area due to its economic power and history as an economic powerhouse.
Atlanta gets more cable TV buzz as some of you discussed, but that does not equate to being influential/ important. Chicago falls under the radar in the media market, and that is one of the most powerful metro areas in North America. I think the Philadelphia metro falls into that category as well.
Just look at basic stats of each county within the metro area. The counties in Southeastern PA are consistently ranked very high in almost every metric, the same cannot be said for most counties in the Atlanta metro.
That is more how I look at influence, which metro is more vital to the well-being of the economy, region/ what is contributes. Both metros are powerful, btw, so this isn't a slight to either one.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
But it DOES mean it has the wider sphere of influence and plays the more important role within its region.
And let's not act as though there aren't a bunch of hillbilly hollers in metro Philly. Last time I checked, Philly was still in Pennsylvania.
And Atlanta is in Georgia....... Need I say more......
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Originally Posted by KodeBlue
You brought up TV shows. That list still doesn't match Atlanta. Not even close.
Atlanta is a juggernaut, the likes of which Philly can't compete with. TV, movie, influence, media, hell, the Steelers have a bigger following in PA than the Eagles.
This isn't to say that the two metros are in different classes as they are obviously in the same class of cities, but Atlanta just feels like the bigger, more influential MSA...point blank.
See above post. Feeling bigger does equate to influence. I think those who have an education/ are well traveled would agree.
This is where the thread went downhill. Talking strictly about GEOGRAPHIC area, yet Atlanta has more influence because there is no other dominant city nearby. Philadelphia is in the Bos-Wash corridor, several large powerful cities (Philadelphia included).
Now talking about which metro area is more influential... I guess people translate that term differently, but I would say the Philadelphia area due to its economic power and history as an economic powerhouse.
Atlanta gets more cable TV buzz as some of you discussed, but that does not equate to being influential/ important. Chicago falls under the radar in the media market, and that is one of the most powerful metro areas in North America. I think the Philadelphia metro falls into that category as well.
Just look at basic stats of each county within the metro area. The counties in Southeastern PA are consistently ranked very high in almost every metric, the same cannot be said for most counties in the Atlanta metro.
That is more how I look at influence, which metro is more vital to the well-being of the economy, region/ what is contributes. Both metros are powerful, btw, so this isn't a slight to either one.
And Atlanta is in Georgia....... Need I say more......
See above post. Feeling bigger does equate to influence. I think those who have an education/ are well traveled would agree.
Every single reputable global power city ranking out there has Atlanta ranked above Philadelphia in terms of being a more influential city.
Philly actually punched below its weight because it is the weakest of the four powerhouses in the Bos-Wash corridor.
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