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And might I add that you didn't prove your point, like, at all. My secondary point was that using Atlanta's or Houston's MSA square mileage IS misleading, and it IS. The numbers you posted prove that!
Take Atlanta:
2010 total MSA population: 5.287 million people.
8,376 sq mi
But 64% of the population lives within the 25 mile radius, which is only 23% of the MSA land area.
At the 45 mile radius, you're only at 6361 sq mi, or 76% of the land area of the MSA, yet you've hit 98% of the population.
The point still stands that while technically metro Atlanta and metro Houston have these monster square mileages, it's not like the people in those metros are THAT spread out. So it IS misleading.
I also made the point about Harris County, TX, where Houston is located. It contained in 2010 69% of the entire metro Houston population, and only 17% of the MSA land area. So to say Houston is a 10,000 square mile MSA with "less population" is misleading as the Houston MSA now has an estimated HIGHER population than metro Philly, and the ever increasing percentage of that is in the single core county.
I wonder what the 2010 concentric numbers would look like if we compared Houston and Philly. I would bet that it wouldn't be materially different. In 2020 I would bet that Houston is larger and "denser" in all but the core 1-5 miles. Easily. Atlanta may get there by 2030.
****None of this is to say I wouldn't prefer to LIVE in Philly. Totally different story. I actually can't stand Atlanta with all my being.
you probably have to get to at least 15 or more likely 20-25 honestly and in ten years the core gap at 10 miles; no
I do agree perceptually esp driving through Atlanta or a Houton can feel bigger Philly for it size from highways especially does not convey its real size. Most highways don't go through the mot developed areas and high rises are few and far between outside the core in the relative sense
And might I add that you didn't prove your point, like, at all. My secondary point was that using Atlanta's or Houston's MSA square mileage IS misleading, and it IS. The numbers you posted prove that!
Take Atlanta:
2010 total MSA population: 5.287 million people.
8,376 sq mi
But 64% of the population lives within the 25 mile radius, which is only 23% of the MSA land area.
At the 45 mile radius, you're only at 6361 sq mi, or 76% of the land area of the MSA, yet you've hit 98% of the population.
The point still stands that while technically metro Atlanta and metro Houston have these monster square mileages, it's not like the people in those metros are THAT spread out. So it IS misleading.
I also made the point about Harris County, TX, where Houston is located. It contained in 2010 69% of the entire metro Houston population, and only 17% of the MSA land area. So to say Houston is a 10,000 square mile MSA with "less population" is misleading as the Houston MSA now has an estimated HIGHER population than metro Philly, and the ever increasing percentage of that is in the single core county.
I wonder what the 2010 concentric numbers would look like if we compared Houston and Philly. I would bet that it wouldn't be materially different. In 2020 I would bet that Houston is larger and "denser" in all but the core 1-5 miles. Easily. Atlanta may get there by 2030. It's not surprising because there are a lot of egos on this thread.
****None of this is to say I wouldn't prefer to LIVE in Philly. Totally different story. I actually can't stand Atlanta with all my being.
Some of you posters crack me up. Even when you are proven wrong, you'll still continue to fight a losing argument. It doesn't surprise me given the amount of egos on this forum.
Nitty, worthless, factually incorrect post. Atlanta has far more 12+ lane stretches than nearly any other metro in the US, barring Houston, perhaps LA (and even most of those freeways aren't super wide), a couple in Chicago, and really can't even think of much else.
75 in Cobb is 10-14 lanes for many miles, 85 through Gwinnett gets close to 18 lanes if you include feeders and is 12+ for the majority of its duration, hitting darn near 20 lanes at its junction with University Pkwy a good 30-35 miles outside of the city center, the duration of the Connector is 12+ and easily 14-16 at its widest parts through the city, parts of 20 on the eastside, and the Perimeter from 20E through 75N (nearly half of the entire beltway) is 10-12 lanes for its duration. Very few highways in metro Atlanta are under 10 lanes, 10 being the defacto minimum, with occasional intracity parkways down to a mere 6.
Much of Atlanta is lost in the woods. I agree. But to visitors and people passing through much of it is seen from the highways. From the highways the city is pretty massive. The skyline is stretched out, but by no means small. The traffic is insane. The freeways are super large and imposing. And you pass a good 2-3-4+ skylines while merely driving through. And the traffic and wide highways go on for 50-75 miles from N-S, 30-40 E-W. That's an imposing reach that adds to the feel that Atlanta is a large city (when really the entire city just so happens to be on and immediately adjacent to the freeway).
Also, as someone pointed out, there is a 50 story building in Buckhead. And quite a few that are 40+. Remember, this is a whole separate skyline 5-7 miles from Midtown, which is 1-2 miles from downtown. And there are skylines beyond Buckhead. The density in between all of these skylines is impressively low, lost in the woods. But from the highways, all you see/pass through are these skylines with highways lined with buildings/hotels in between.
Houston is even more impressive in this way, and has a larger CBD skyline.
I guess if we are counting intersections and feeders as lanes, sure, but not general purpose lanes (I'm surprised you didn't mention 285 south of the airport). I moved to Minneapolis, and if counting all lanes at an interchange near downtown, I total 17 here. I would not suggest we have a 17 lane wide interstate, though.
I find nothing special about Atlanta's transportation network aside from MARTA. While severely limited, it is a functional heavy-rail system.
Wow, ok. Defeat. Atlanta has a 48 floor, 635 ft mixed-use high rise a full 9.73 miles from city hall. Not a 50 story building. Amazing.
Where are Philly's suburban 48 story buildings? Or 30 story buildings? or secondary, tertiary, quaternary, and so forth skylines?
Try adding some substance every once in a while.
Imo it's really kind of a badge of honor if Philly *doesn't* win this. It's more of a city, not a sprawling metro. I guess people have different views.
I guess if we are counting intersections and feeders as lanes, sure, but not general purpose lanes (I'm surprised you didn't mention 285 south of the airport). I moved to Minneapolis, and if counting all lanes at an interchange near downtown, I total 17 here. I would not suggest we have a 17 lane wide interstate, though.
I find nothing special about Atlanta's transportation network aside from MARTA. While severely limited, it is a functional heavy-rail system.
Atlanta has many 12+ general lanes of traffic on several long stretches of several of its interstates. It gets to 13, 14, 15, 16 and beyond, generally, with as you say feeders and shorter stretches in between intersections. But 6 on either side is not an unusual thing for Atlanta. I lived there. I know. Minneapolis highways really don't compare. In fact, neither do most places'. If they did, it'd be something cities are known by. Atlanta, to a lesser degree than LA and Houston, is known for its wide highways.
In fact, for the Olympics, especially for the COnnector, the lanes were narrowed and increased in count to expand capacity. Count that as something unique to Atlanta, as well. Literally no more room to widen highways, but a need for so many lanes, so the GDOT simply restripes with narrower lanes...makes driving there all that more fun
You'd be surprised at Houston's density, I think. It's not CC/South Philly/U City density, but it's a pretty large swath in the 7500-15000 range, with some spikes to 30-50k here and there. It's more akin to LA development patterns as opposed to Northeastern development patters, but there is some density there and it's only rapidly increasing.
So I don't think it's a stretch at all to envision a Houston with greater avg density within a 10 mile concentric circle. Atlanta is more of a stretch as its land use is very very inefficient. Usually density begets high rises, but in Atlanta's case simply being near a major road begets high rises and you can have 2+ acre country estates in the shadows of 30+ story apartment high rises.
No way, I would like to see you show some facts for that first part of your post.
I'm pretty sure it's acknowledged that Philly *is* larger than either (though I would imagine that Houston is getting very close, if it hasn't already exceeded Philly in size in all but the innermost concentric 1-5 mile circles).
But that's not what this thread is about now is it? "Which feels like the more massive metro area - Atlanta MSA or Philly MSA?"
Also, for Houston, 4.3 million people live in its central county alone. Not saying it's "dense" by any means, but to say that because the MSA is a whopping 10,062 sq mi it must not feel as large as Philly's, which "packs more people into its 5,131 sq mi" is a bit misleading. Same goes for Atlanta. The vast majority of metro Atlanta lives in about 2,000 sq mi. It's the back 6,000 sq mi that carry almost no weight but are part of the "metro area".
The difference between Philly and Houston/Atlanta is that perhaps a vast majority of metro Philly lives within a tighter 1,000 sq mi whereas it takes 2,000 sq mi to get a vast majority of metro Atlantans or Houstonians. But the way these cities are built in relative even 2-4,000 ppsm density over this size of area interconnected with massive highways, massive apartment complexes, random smittering of weird density a la 20-30+ story buildings 10-20 miles outside of the city center, etc etc, they FEEL larger as metros than they actually are.
In some respects Atlanta can feel larger than SF, Boston, or Manhattan if geographic size makes an impact on your perception. But in other respects, it is possible to get totally lost in the density of the former cities and when that happens they can feel very very large, too.
I think we're mixing population fact with perception. This thread seems to be more about perception, not fact.
This is probably one of the most insightful posts I've run across on this site! Awesome post!
^^^You're failing to comprehend, though. Nobody is denying Philadelphia and its metro ARE LARGER than either.
But it's VERY UNDERSTANDABLE that many who have passed through both METRO AREAS might be under the impression that Atlanta (or Houston, or insert metro here) are larger. They would be mistaken. But this thread isn't about what IS larger, now is it? No way around facts, I agree. But most people in America aren't statisticians, and most people don't even care about any of this. But many people have driven through both Atlanta (where many major highways converge and anyone going from the Midwest to FL passes through) or Philadelphia, which is on the 95 corridor.
To people passing through, which metro feels larger? THAT is the question?
The OP, ladies and ladies:
Please pretend you at least know how to read. #cantstandPhillyposters
I've been saying exactly this for years with examples.
From the neighborhoods, the Philly area feels vastly larger; from the freeways, Atlanta feels vastly larger. How is this even up for debate?
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the Sovereign in Buckhead is a 50 story tall building. 
