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Wow.... I suppose it is in big part influenced by how many people from there are on the board...
Minneapolis might win for economy and sheer acreage of park space...
But for history, high culture, regional location, weather, higher education, variety of outdoor opportunities, etc., neighborhood feel/mom & pops, it strikes me that Pittsburgh would win rather handily. Would anyone dispute that? I'm not meaning to say that Minneapolis isn't an attractive city or that it doesn't have those other things, just that Pittsburgh at least from an objective standpoint would seem to have "more" and "better".
Pittsburgh has been declining rather rapidly. You would be right if Pittsburgh has been growing like MSP is or even stayed on the same level that it was at before.
Wow.... I suppose it is in big part influenced by how many people from there are on the board...
Minneapolis might win for economy and sheer acreage of park space...
But for history, high culture, regional location, weather, higher education, variety of outdoor opportunities, etc., neighborhood feel/mom & pops, it strikes me that Pittsburgh would win rather handily. Would anyone dispute that? I'm not meaning to say that Minneapolis isn't an attractive city or that it doesn't have those other things, just that Pittsburgh at least from an objective standpoint would seem to have "more" and "better".
I'd definitely dispute that. Breaking down the specific items highlighted above:
History: Pittsburgh has a longer history as a major city so it gets the nod.
High culture (I'm assuming this to be a reference to fine arts):, you have to be kidding! For a city of its size, Pittsburgh has a very good fine arts scene. However, there isn't a city with a population under five million (and a few over five million) in the country that can beat Minneapolis in that regard. Music, museums, theater, dance, literary publishing: there isn't one of these sub-categories in which Pittsburgh matches Minneapolis.
Regional location: Pittsburgh is closer to The East Coast, so if that's important?, it wins.
Weather: I suspect most people would choose Pittsburgh by default.
Higher education: I don't see any qualitative or quantitative difference between the two.
Variety of outdoor opportunities: Minneapolis outshines Pittsburgh year-round.
Neighborhood feel/mom & pops: I'm not sure what this means, nor how it could be assessed.
As for the criteria in the OP, scenery and weather are the only two that might go in Pittsburgh's favor. The rest are pretty solidly in favor of Minneapolis--something which may well be reflected in the lopsided poll results.
Pittsburgh has been declining rather rapidly. You would be right if Pittsburgh has been growing like MSP is or even stayed on the same level that it was at before.
I think you're right in that Pittsburgh's population has been declining. However, as a region, Pittsburgh at least appears to be very, very strong in terms of who is moving and who is staying. Pittsburgh as a whole has completely reinvented itself, and as seen by this list has among the most productive workforces in America No. 2: Pittsburgh, PA - In Photos: America's Smartest Cities - Forbes arguably the best, when you think about all the employers and people looking there. I think similar trends have been noted in Scandinavia, so I feel like to some degree it's in what you are looking for.
I'd definitely dispute that. Breaking down the specific items highlighted above:
History: Pittsburgh has a longer history as a major city so it gets the nod.
High culture (I'm assuming this to be a reference to fine arts):, you have to be kidding! For a city of its size, Pittsburgh has a very good fine arts scene. However, there isn't a city with a population under five million (and a few over five million) in the country that can beat Minneapolis in that regard. Music, museums, theater, dance, literary publishing: there isn't one of these sub-categories in which Pittsburgh matches Minneapolis.
Regional location: Pittsburgh is closer to The East Coast, so if that's important?, it wins.
Weather: I suspect most people would choose Pittsburgh by default.
Higher education: I don't see any qualitative or quantitative difference between the two.
Variety of outdoor opportunities: Minneapolis outshines Pittsburgh year-round.
Neighborhood feel/mom & pops: I'm not sure what this means, nor how it could be assessed.
As for the criteria in the OP, scenery and weather are the only two that might go in Pittsburgh's favor. The rest are pretty solidly in favor of Minneapolis--something which may well be reflected in the lopsided poll results.
High Culture: I can't speak to literary publishing as a criterion as I'm not well versed enough to comment on it. I suppose in general I should've expanded it. I was also including museums into the equation. As good as Minny's museums may be, they likely don't have a single one as dynamic as the Carnegie Museum of Natural History. Also, since it's a legacy city, maybe I'm biased in favor of those being from Cleveland, but unless Minny had a significant financier at a certain point in time, I can't imagine either the Walker or the MMA as matching the Carnegie Museum of Art either, at least not on range and esteem of collection is concerned. Carnegie Museum of Art - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Again, admittedly some of this I'm attributing to Pittsburgh due to assumption of strong similarities to Cleveland, which is quite possibly in Top 5 in America in terms of museums/high culture. I guess I included other things also, the Heinz History and Architecture Center, the Cathedral of Learning at Pitt. Not to mention the Warhol Museum is there also. I see that both the Pittsburgh Symphony and Minnesota Orchestra are both likely Top 10 nationally, but I think that the fact that Pittsburgh's plays in a beaux arts style palace helps their cause. Can't speak to Minneapolis cultural/theater district, but I'm guessing that Pittsburgh's can more than hold it's own. Cultural District, Pittsburgh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Also, Pittsburgh does have the Pittsburgh Carnegie Library.
Regional location: I would say that the East Coast helps it significantly, being <6 hours from New York, <5 hours from Toronto, <4 hours from DC and <3 hours from a host of other destinations is good, but also, the spectacular access Pittsburghers have to varied landscapes and nature that are very impressive within an hours drive.
Higher Education: Again, this is one of those Minneapolis is very good, but Pittsburgh just might be better, ones. Pittsburgh I believe has over 100,000 college students within city limits. Carnegie Mellon as a school is likely more esteemed than any in the Minneapolis area, though UM is good, UM and Pitt appear to be relatively comparable, though their standing varies sharply depending on which ranking system is used (ARWU, Forbes, USNWR, etc.) Pittsburgh also has Duquesne which I believe is USNWR Top 100 and a number of somewhat esteemed liberal arts schools in the surrounding communities.
Variety of outdoor opportunities: Again, this is one where admittedly, I don't know as much as I'd like to, and so if more information could be provided about Minny, I may change my tune on. I know that from Pittsburgh which may not be as bike friendly as Minny but still pretty darn good, you can take something called the Great Allegheny Passage, which goes 300 miles through all sorts of towns and series and ends up by the Chesapeake Bay, passing through Washington, DC along the way. For the weekend warrior, I'm not sure that Minny offers something similar. The BWCA, a few hours north of Minny is incredible, but if I had to guess (again I don't know), I'd imagine that the Mississippi River at least has too strong of currents for regular kayaking, on the other hand, business professionals could leave their offices in Pittsburgh, change real quick, and be out on the Monongahela River in a matter of minutes... Pittsburgh also has something an hour to the south called Ohiopyle State Park, where one can rent a raft and float on Class 4 whitewater rapids less than an hour to the south of the city.. It was a favorite daytrip of ours growing up. If Minny does offer something similar, I'm not familiar with it. Also, while I'm sure that Minny offers some nice hiking trails and parks, I may be wrong, but I'd have to guess that unlike CLE or PITT, there are very few if any places near the city where elevation exceeds 1,000 feet. Pittsburgh on the other hand has places like that all around the city, and it has places like Coopers Rock State Forest and Forbes State Forest within an hour that REALLY ARE spectacular.
Neighborhood Feel/Mom&Pops: Admittedly this one is somewhat difficult to assess. However, I'm guessing that Pittsburgh has a much more signficant Ellis Island Culture in it's restaurants and establishments around town than does Minny, which I'd have to imagine has newer, likely more hipster urban areas, but ones that don't have the architectural significance or sense of establishment that say Pittsburgh areas like Carson Street, Lawrenceville and Bloomfield would have (like rowhouses/brownstones etc., although there's not much Minneapolis can do to change that).
For those unsure of one or the other of these cities (or both) - both have tons, I mean tons, of "outdoor activities." Not an issue for either, unless you lock the doors at 50 degrees. Great nature near and in both metros.
I'm a bit surprised at how lopsided the poll is, I think the cities are fairly even, with the Twin Cities coming out a bit ahead due to its size (amenities) and economy.
For those unsure of one or the other of these cities (or both) - both have tons, I mean tons, of "outdoor activities." Not an issue for either, unless you lock the doors at 50 degrees. Great nature near and in both metros.
I'm a bit surprised at how lopsided the poll is, I think the cities are fairly even, with the Twin Cities coming out a bit ahead due to its size (amenities) and economy.
I agree that these are both great cities. One of the things I like least about these x vs. x polls is that they often lead to statements, intended or not, which denigrate one city or the other.
With that said, MSP is significantly larger than Pittsburgh, and while Minneapolis has been growing at a very healthy rate from 2010-2014, Pittsburgh is actually losing population, albeit very slightly.
I don't agree that the two are particularly close by most objective metrics, so the poll results don't really surprise me. However, I do agree that the advantages for Minneapolis are largely related to size.
Among Midwestern cities, I think Pittsburgh would match-up much better with Cincinnati, Milwaukee, or Kansas City.
The Pittsburgh metropolitan area is estimated to have lost 317 people between 2010 and 2014. That's an average of 79 per year. That's not rapid. Furthermore, it's a case of addition by subtraction, economically speaking. Those who are leaving tend to be older and less educated. On the other hand, the college-educated young adult population in the Pittsburgh metropolitan area has increased by 29% between 2000 and 2012.
In fact, it's gained that demographic at a faster rate than Minneapolis/St. Paul since 2000. Granted, Minneapolis/St. Paul is starting from a larger base, but the point is, if Pittsburgh was such a desert for economic opportunity, then the population of college-educated young people in Pittsburgh would be decreasing too, which it isn't.
Plain and simple, this isn't the 20th Century anymore, and the quality of a population matters more than the quantity. What Pittsburgh lacks in quantity growth, it more than compensates for in quality growth. It's addition by subtraction. Since 2000, the Pittsburgh metropolitan area has shrunk but gotten wealthier and more educated in the process. And now the population trend appears to be more flat than free-falling anyway.
Since 2000, the Pittsburgh metropolitan area has shrunk but gotten wealthier and more educated in the process. And now the population trend appears to be more flat than free-falling anyway.
Since 2000, the Minneapolis metro area has grown, become wealthier and more educated in the process.
Graduate or professional degree
Minneapolis MSA
2000 Census: 192,396 10.1%
2013 Census: 306,301 13.2%
Graduate or Professional Degree
Pittsburgh MSA
2000 Census: 143,135 8.7%
2013 Census: 210,718 12.5%
Median household income
Minneapolis MSA
2000: $54,304
2013: $67,194
Pittsburgh MSA
2000: $37,467
2013: $51,291
BTW, according to the latest Census estimates (2013), the Minneapolis - St. Paul area had 510,594 residents within the 25 to 34 year old range - an increase 54,424 since 2000. Pittsburgh had 298,123 within the same age range - an increase 13,343 since 2000. Also, the median age in the Minneapolis MSA is 36.6. It's 42.8 in the Pittsburgh MSA.
Man, can Pittsburgh ever win one of these contests? I've never been to Minneapolis, but I know that the weather there is terrible. And it looks like a Midwestern city. Better than Pittsburgh? You must be trippin'.
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