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Minneapolis winters are terrible. If you can get over the severe cold, you won't enjoy driving on ice/snow or digging out your car. I'm sure the average Minnesotan's average winter activity is shoveling snow.
Minneapolis winters are terrible. If you can get over the severe cold, you won't enjoy driving on ice/snow or digging out your car. I'm sure the average Minnesotan's average winter activity is shoveling snow.
Actually, I enjoy all those things, or at least I don't mind them. I couldn't possibly live where you do and never have any snow to look forward to in the winter. We average over twenty inches of snow here and it's far too little for me, especially since it tends to melt rather quickly.
Actually, I enjoy all those things, or at least I don't mind them. I couldn't possibly live where you do and never have any snow to look forward to in the winter. We average over twenty inches of snow here and it's far too little for me, especially since it tends to melt rather quickly.
Unfortunately you are in the minority and why Miami is exploding, as well as Florida in general. I cannot tell you how many Jersey plates I see here. Just recently Florida overtook NYS as the third largest state.
Well sure, if you consider brutally cold and long winters to be a plus then you'll love MPLS' weather. But that's not most people and that's not the poster I was responding to. He conceded that MPLS' winter "sucks" yet still gave the edge on weather to MPLS. Why? Well apparently because it's not that much colder and because "the rest of the year makes up for it" (as if Pittsburgh's summers are awful). That's what I found bizarre.
Oh and if you think that Pittsburgh's winter is not cold enough for "consistent access to winter activities" you must be joking. We are not talking about Atlanta here. Pittsburgh is a NE city right by the snowbelt! It's just not as bone-chillingly cold as MPLS.
I believe you missed the point of my comment. The "why?" for why Minneapolis winters are better is that because of the 10 degree temperature difference which brings the average temp. below freezing, snow steadily accumulates and stays on the ground throughout the entire winter instead of melting after nearly every snowfall. That makes a gigantic difference when it comes to the availability winter activities throughout the winter (which for Minneapolis, is the entire winter).
There's a reason that Minneapolis has 47.1 kilometers of cross-country ski trails within the city itself, with 44.5 kilometers in St. Paul and 468.3 kilometers in the rest of the metro (for a total of 559.87 kilometers or 347.9 miles).
There's also a reason that the Minneapolis has 5 downhill skiing/snowboarding areas (Afton Alps, Buck Hill, Hyland Ski Area, Elm Creek, Wild Mountain) just within the suburbs, one of which is owned by Vail Resorts (Afton Alps).
There's a reason that the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro has multiple (I can't find the exact number) large ski jump facilities, on of which (the Bush Lake Ski Jump) is the most urban ski jump in the world.
There's a reason that St. Paul hosts Red Bull Crashed Ice, the global downhill ice-cross tournament that only stops at 4 cities worldwide.
There's a reason that Minneapolis annually hosts the U.S. Pond Hockey Championships on Lake Calhoun or Lake Nokomis.
There's a reason that Minneapolis and St. Paul both host large-scale cross-country ski races within the cities themselves, including NCAA and JNQ races, Junior Nationals, and large citizen races such as the City of Lakes Loppet, the Twin Cities Championships, among many other smaller tournaments, not to mention the nearby American Birkiebiner in Hayward, WI (the largest Nordic ski race in North America, and a globally important competition) and the Mora Vasaloppet in Mora, MN.
There's a reason Minneapolis hosts competitions for ski jumping, including JNQ's and parts of the U.S. Cup.
There's a reason that St. Paul has a the St. Paul Winter Carnival, a large two week long winter festival in January where ice sculptures are able to stand for weeks, and thousands of people participate in an outdoor county-wide medallion hunt with a prize of $10,000.
That reason is the colder weather, which allows the Twin Cities to be a hotbed of winter recreation and competition, in which many citizens participate on a daily basis. The cold weather gives Minneapolis-St. Paul opportunities in the winter which no other cities have.
I'm sure Minneapolis does have somewhat of an edge on skiing (although the relatively flat topography undoubtedly hurts it). But this a thread about city comparisons, not ski resorts.
Thus, there are two logical followups I have.
1. What percentage of people within the city of Minneapolis ski?
2. Out of that group, what percentage do so on say a weekly basis?
I say this because, fundamentally speaking, if you're only skiing a few times a winter, it doesn't matter much if you can do so in your home city or have to drive an hour or two to nearby slopes.
I'd hazard a guess, however, that the majority of people in any core urban area are either too busy or too sedentary to be bothered with winter sports on a weekly basis. On the other hand, the discomfort due to walking around in extreme cold, coupled with winter weather hassles like shoveling are things which largely cannot be avoided.
Obviously it's a good attitude to make the most of the climate of your home city, whatever it might be. But I think it's also demonstrably true that for the average person living in a city, frigid weather is not a plus when it comes to day to day mobility outside.
I am seeing this a lot on here lately. When Minneapolis is compared to other places, it ends up being a shiny city that either ties or beats most cities in every metric. So the homers from the city being compared to MSP, then relentlessly beat the drum about the cold Minneapolitan winters. You get the sense that Minneapolis is slightly south of the north pole, and that it's poor residents suffer from terrible seasonal affective disorder, and quality of life.(For the 9 months a year they have to wear their parkas outside of their igloos.) The "colder than normal" portion of Minnesota's year is really from the middle of December to the middle of March (3 months). Outside of that you really wouldn't notice much of a temperature difference at all. On top of that one of the reasons it's colder is because it's a rather sunny place in the winter. It doesn't have the 4 month cloud dome that perches over the Great Lakes, and traps in a little extra warmth. I would assume has some affect on PGH.
I have no dog in this fight. I do know the Twin Cities area pretty much kills it in quality of life metrics when you look at all those "lists" we all like to haggle over. I don't think when compiling them that they somehow remove any data or effect that Minneapolis "terribly cold, unbearable winters that force it's residents indoors for months at a time". The upper Midwest isn't at all known for it's outdoor lifestyle even in winter (sarcasm).
If you're going to make a case for Pittsburgh over Minneapolis and the only argument you have is an exaggerated hyperbole about the Minnesotan winters, you've probably already lost the argument.
I believe you missed the point of my comment. The "why?" for why Minneapolis winters are better is that because of the 10 degree temperature difference which brings the average temp. below freezing, snow steadily accumulates and stays on the ground throughout the entire winter instead of melting after nearly every snowfall. That makes a gigantic difference when it comes to the availability winter activities throughout the winter (which for Minneapolis, is the entire winter).
There's a reason that Minneapolis has 47.1 kilometers of cross-country ski trails within the city itself, with 44.5 kilometers in St. Paul and 468.3 kilometers in the rest of the metro (for a total of 559.87 kilometers or 347.9 miles).
There's also a reason that the Minneapolis has 5 downhill skiing/snowboarding areas (Afton Alps, Buck Hill, Hyland Ski Area, Elm Creek, Wild Mountain) just within the suburbs, one of which is owned by Vail Resorts (Afton Alps).
There's a reason that the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro has multiple (I can't find the exact number) large ski jump facilities, on of which (the Bush Lake Ski Jump) is the most urban ski jump in the world.
There's a reason that St. Paul hosts Red Bull Crashed Ice, the global downhill ice-cross tournament that only stops at 4 cities worldwide.
There's a reason that Minneapolis annually hosts the U.S. Pond Hockey Championships on Lake Calhoun or Lake Nokomis.
There's a reason that Minneapolis and St. Paul both host large-scale cross-country ski races within the cities themselves, including NCAA and JNQ races, Junior Nationals, and large citizen races such as the City of Lakes Loppet, the Twin Cities Championships, among many other smaller tournaments, not to mention the nearby American Birkiebiner in Hayward, WI (the largest Nordic ski race in North America, and a globally important competition) and the Mora Vasaloppet in Mora, MN.
There's a reason Minneapolis hosts competitions for ski jumping, including JNQ's and parts of the U.S. Cup.
There's a reason that St. Paul has a the St. Paul Winter Carnival, a large two week long winter festival in January where ice sculptures are able to stand for weeks, and thousands of people participate in an outdoor county-wide medallion hunt with a prize of $10,000.
That reason is the colder weather, which allows the Twin Cities to be a hotbed of winter recreation and competition, in which many citizens participate on a daily basis. The cold weather gives Minneapolis-St. Paul opportunities in the winter which no other cities have.
While Minneapolis does average slightly higher snowfall than Pittsburgh, trying to convince northeasterners Minneapolis has good downhill skiing is trying to get the sun not to shine.
The mountains in Somerset County, PA (an hour from Pittsburgh) dwarf anything within 10 hours of Minneapolis (or in the entire Midwest).
I'm sure Minneapolis does have somewhat of an edge on skiing (although the relatively flat topography undoubtedly hurts it). But this a thread about city comparisons, not ski resorts.
Thus, there are two logical followups I have.
1. What percentage of people within the city of Minneapolis ski?
2. Out of that group, what percentage do so on say a weekly basis?
I say this because, fundamentally speaking, if you're only skiing a few times a winter, it doesn't matter much if you can do so in your home city or have to drive an hour or two to nearby slopes.
I'd hazard a guess, however, that the majority of people in any core urban area are either too busy or too sedentary to be bothered with winter sports on a weekly basis. On the other hand, the discomfort due to walking around in extreme cold, coupled with winter weather hassles like shoveling are things which largely cannot be avoided.
Obviously it's a good attitude to make the most of the climate of your home city, whatever it might be. But I think it's also demonstrably true that for the average person living in a city, frigid weather is not a plus when it comes to day to day mobility outside.
Yes, this thread is about city comparisons, and winter recreation is a valid topic, especially when considering which city has the "better" or "more fun" winter.
First of all, I wont to make sure that you understand that when I am talking about winter recreation, I am talking primarily about cross country skiing, ice skating, pond hockey, tubing, etc. I am not talking about "ski resorts." There is only one "ski resort" in the Twin Cities, however even it (Afton Alps) is used quite regularly, however mostly by high-school aged people.
Otherwise, when it comes to general winter recreation, yes, many people in Minneapolis ski, primarily cross country ski. Of course, the majority don't, just like any city anywhere. But, most people who care about physical fitness in the Twin Cities (which is a large population, considering Minneapolis is one of the most physically fit cities in the country) choose to cross country ski in the winter rather than run or bike. They don't go to resorts to do this, they go to professionally groomed trails (some cost money, most don't) in city parks, regional parks, golf courses, park reserves, etc.
Cross country skiing is so prevalent in the Twin Cities that several private parks and golf courses (such as the Three Rivers Park District) use snow making technology to cover miles of trails every morning, and charge fees for daily and season passes. I ski on a daily basis in the winter, and I see people of all ages, races, genders, family sizes, etc., skiing every day. This past winter was warmer than usual, so there wasn't always a ton of snow, however, after every snowfall, Hyland Park Reserve in Bloomington would be so packed that there would be traffic to get there, and the ski trails were jammed full of people. Also, cross country skiing is profitable profitable enough that the government jumps in, and the DNR charges everyone over the age of 16 a Minnesota cross country ski license (just like hunting) to be able to legally ski on public land. As does the city of Minneapolis, and as I said, it is profitable enough for the city that it grooms and makes artificial snow for not only Theodore Wirth Park (the largest park in the city, parts of which are also a high difficulty world-class race course), but grooms permanent trails on the frozen lakes in the city (Cedar Lake, Lake of the Isles. and Lake Calhoun).
Many people in the Twin Cities ski on more than a weekly basis, as is evident by the number of private and public entities that make money off of the sport. It is not something that people go out and do once or twice per winter (there are exceptions, or course), but do consistently throughout the entire winter, as no matter where you live in the core cities or the suburbs, there are groomed trails close by. Nearly every single high school in the metro area has a Nordic Ski team, and these high school teams graduate some of the most talented skiers in the continent and the world.
While Minneapolis does average slightly higher snowfall than Pittsburgh, trying to convince northeasterners Minneapolis has good downhill skiing is trying to get the sun not to shine.
The mountains in Somerset County, PA (an hour from Pittsburgh) dwarf anything within 10 hours of Minneapolis (or in the entire Midwest).
My primary point is not downhill skiing. So many people seem to think that downhill skiing is the only kind of skiing. Even so, however, despite the larger ski resorts over an hour from Pittsburgh, Minneapolis has much more immediate, in-metro access to downhill skiing without requiring high elevations, because of the climate. That allows people to ski more often as a hobby, rather than taking expensive trips outside the metro to big ski resorts. My point is about consistent, easily accessible, and commonly used winter recreation, not ski trips.
If you're going to make a case for Pittsburgh over Minneapolis and the only argument you have is an exaggerated hyperbole about the Minnesotan winters, you've probably already lost the argument.
I am not attacking Minneapolis over the winter. I'm saying that it's demonstrably false that there is no difference in the winter weather between Minneapolis and Pittsburgh.
Personally speaking, I do wish I lived in a slightly colder climate than Pittsburgh. I like the constant blanket of snow until March, which Pittsburgh doesn't get. But I know that I'm in the minority by that metric. And I wouldn't want to live in a city with as extreme winters as Minneapolis.
You can of course argue that the sunshine in Minneapolis's winter makes up for the colder weather (Pittsburgh is covered by a blanket of clouds nearly winter long, unless we have an unusually cold snap). I'm also guessing given the higher level of snow that Minneapolis handles street plowing and salting much better than Pittsburgh, so walking around in snowy-icy weather in urban neighborhoods may actually be less of a hassle (there are some streets in Pittsburgh with steep slopes people honestly do not drive their cars down when it's icy). But that was not what was argued - what was argued was that a 10-degree difference in terms of winter lows doesn't mean anything, which is ridiculous. As I said, I'll go for walks outside when it's 30, even 25, for hours with no issue. But when it's 10 and the wind is blowing, I'm sure as sh*t not going to go for a casual stroll anywhere.
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My primary point is not downhill skiing. So many people seem to think that downhill skiing is the only kind of skiing. Even so, however, despite the larger ski resorts over an hour from Pittsburgh, Minneapolis has much more immediate, in-metro access to downhill skiing without requiring high elevations, because of the climate. That allows people to ski more often as a hobby, rather than taking expensive trips outside the metro to big ski resorts. My point is about consistent, easily accessible, and commonly used winter recreation, not ski trips.
