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Minny and The Pitt has virtually identiical avg annual snowfall totals, I would take the near constant below 32 degree winters in Minny over the messy freeze/thaw environment in The Pitt, and you should too!
I am not attacking Minneapolis over the winter. I'm saying that it's demonstrably false that there is no difference in the winter weather between Minneapolis and Pittsburgh.
Personally speaking, I do wish I lived in a slightly colder climate than Pittsburgh. I like the constant blanket of snow until March, which Pittsburgh doesn't get. But I know that I'm in the minority by that metric. And I wouldn't want to live in a city with as extreme winters as Minneapolis.
You can of course argue that the sunshine in Minneapolis's winter makes up for the colder weather (Pittsburgh is covered by a blanket of clouds nearly winter long, unless we have an unusually cold snap). I'm also guessing given the higher level of snow that Minneapolis handles street plowing and salting much better than Pittsburgh, so walking around in snowy-icy weather in urban neighborhoods may actually be less of a hassle (there are some streets in Pittsburgh with steep slopes people honestly do not drive their cars down when it's icy). But that was not what was argued - what was argued was that a 10-degree difference in terms of winter lows doesn't mean anything, which is ridiculous. As I said, I'll go for walks outside when it's 30, even 25, for hours with no issue. But when it's 10 and the wind is blowing, I'm sure as sh*t not going to go for a casual stroll anywhere.
If it helps, I was arguing that it does make a significant and positive difference (due to the lack of a freeze/thaw cycle) toward winter recreation. Not everyone is arguing that they are the same, in fact I think only a couple really were.
I am seeing this a lot on here lately. When Minneapolis is compared to other places, it ends up being a shiny city that either ties or beats most cities in every metric. So the homers from the city being compared to MSP, then relentlessly beat the drum about the cold Minneapolitan winters. You get the sense that Minneapolis is slightly south of the north pole, and that it's poor residents suffer from terrible seasonal affective disorder, and quality of life.(For the 9 months a year they have to wear their parkas outside of their igloos.) The "colder than normal" portion of Minnesota's year is really from the middle of December to the middle of March (3 months). Outside of that you really wouldn't notice much of a temperature difference at all. On top of that one of the reasons it's colder is because it's a rather sunny place in the winter. It doesn't have the 4 month cloud dome that perches over the Great Lakes, and traps in a little extra warmth. I would assume has some affect on PGH.
I have no dog in this fight. I do know the Twin Cities area pretty much kills it in quality of life metrics when you look at all those "lists" we all like to haggle over. I don't think when compiling them that they somehow remove any data or effect that Minneapolis "terribly cold, unbearable winters that force it's residents indoors for months at a time". The upper Midwest isn't at all known for it's outdoor lifestyle even in winter (sarcasm).
I agree. After moving here in 2009 from the Atlantic South, it's weird, its like no one from outside the region is content unless you constantly complaining about how cold it is in winter, and then that is the only reason the Twin Cities should not be considered for X,Y, or Z (at least on these forums anyway). I suppose in real life people look at things more objectively? The year round attributes of the Cities is impressive and easily compares with or trumps the majority of cities in the US. It's one of the best places to live in the country (by most objective standards regarding health, education attainment, high wages/salary, employment, accessibility, transportation, arts, recreation, etc...) regardless of the time of year, what else is there to say?
Last edited by sandlapper; 06-12-2015 at 10:13 AM..
I am seeing this a lot on here lately. When Minneapolis is compared to other places, it ends up being a shiny city that either ties or beats most cities in every metric. So the homers from the city being compared to MSP, then relentlessly beat the drum about the cold Minneapolitan winters. You get the sense that Minneapolis is slightly south of the north pole, and that it's poor residents suffer from terrible seasonal affective disorder, and quality of life.(For the 9 months a year they have to wear their parkas outside of their igloos.) The "colder than normal" portion of Minnesota's year is really from the middle of December to the middle of March (3 months). Outside of that you really wouldn't notice much of a temperature difference at all. On top of that one of the reasons it's colder is because it's a rather sunny place in the winter. It doesn't have the 4 month cloud dome that perches over the Great Lakes, and traps in a little extra warmth. I would assume has some affect on PGH.
I have no dog in this fight. I do know the Twin Cities area pretty much kills it in quality of life metrics when you look at all those "lists" we all like to haggle over. I don't think when compiling them that they somehow remove any data or effect that Minneapolis "terribly cold, unbearable winters that force it's residents indoors for months at a time". The upper Midwest isn't at all known for it's outdoor lifestyle even in winter (sarcasm).
If you're going to make a case for Pittsburgh over Minneapolis and the only argument you have is an exaggerated hyperbole about the Minnesotan winters, you've probably already lost the argument.
The average low temperature in Minneapolis in January is 8 degrees, champ. Maybe that sounds good to you, but I'm sure that most people would agree with me that that sounds horrible.
The average low temperature in Minneapolis in January is 8 degrees, champ. Maybe that sounds good to you, but I'm sure that most people would agree with me that that sounds horrible.
You're absolutely right, how miserable! How could anyone think Minneapolis might beat your city in a head to head match. Thank you Pittsburgh homer for your enlightened arguement, not at all validating my thought that people can't find anything else to counter about.
I believe you missed the point of my comment. The "why?" for why Minneapolis winters are better is that because of the 10 degree temperature difference which brings the average temp. below freezing, snow steadily accumulates and stays on the ground throughout the entire winter instead of melting after nearly every snowfall. That makes a gigantic difference when it comes to the availability winter activities throughout the winter (which for Minneapolis, is the entire winter).
There's a reason that Minneapolis has 47.1 kilometers of cross-country ski trails within the city itself, with 44.5 kilometers in St. Paul and 468.3 kilometers in the rest of the metro (for a total of 559.87 kilometers or 347.9 miles).
There's also a reason that the Minneapolis has 5 downhill skiing/snowboarding areas (Afton Alps, Buck Hill, Hyland Ski Area, Elm Creek, Wild Mountain) just within the suburbs, one of which is owned by Vail Resorts (Afton Alps).
There's a reason that the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro has multiple (I can't find the exact number) large ski jump facilities, on of which (the Bush Lake Ski Jump) is the most urban ski jump in the world.
There's a reason that St. Paul hosts Red Bull Crashed Ice, the global downhill ice-cross tournament that only stops at 4 cities worldwide.
There's a reason that Minneapolis annually hosts the U.S. Pond Hockey Championships on Lake Calhoun or Lake Nokomis.
There's a reason that Minneapolis and St. Paul both host large-scale cross-country ski races within the cities themselves, including NCAA and JNQ races, Junior Nationals, and large citizen races such as the City of Lakes Loppet, the Twin Cities Championships, among many other smaller tournaments, not to mention the nearby American Birkiebiner in Hayward, WI (the largest Nordic ski race in North America, and a globally important competition) and the Mora Vasaloppet in Mora, MN.
There's a reason Minneapolis hosts competitions for ski jumping, including JNQ's and parts of the U.S. Cup.
There's a reason that St. Paul has a the St. Paul Winter Carnival, a large two week long winter festival in January where ice sculptures are able to stand for weeks, and thousands of people participate in an outdoor county-wide medallion hunt with a prize of $10,000.
That reason is the colder weather, which allows the Twin Cities to be a hotbed of winter recreation and competition, in which many citizens participate on a daily basis. The cold weather gives Minneapolis-St. Paul opportunities in the winter which no other cities have.
So what? Winter sucks. Unless you're a little kid, maybe. When we were kids we used to ride sleds down hills like this one: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4805...Wve5w3clIw!2e0
Where can kids sled ride in some flat place?
You're absolutely right, how miserable! How could anyone think Minneapolis might beat your city in a head to head match. Thank you Pittsburgh homer for your enlightened arguement, not at all validating my thought that people can't find anything else to counter about.
First of all, if you're going to mock people for making unenlightened "arguements," you should at least learn how to spell the word. Second of all, yes, that is miserable, and I would not want to live in a place that is that cold, I don't care what else goes on there.
First of all, if you're going to mock people for making unenlightened "arguements," you should at least learn how to spell the word. Second of all, yes, that is miserable, and I would not want to live in a place that is that cold, I don't care what else goes on there.
So then you feel a thread, Pittsburgh vs. MSP only needs to be decided by which one is colder in January? Lets start a thread comparing your town of Pittsburgh to Jackson MS. Clearly based on your logic Jackson ought to win hands down.
So then you feel a thread, Pittsburgh vs. MSP only needs to be decided by which one is colder in January? Lets start a thread comparing your town of Pittsburgh to Jackson MS. Clearly based on your logic Jackson ought to win hands down.
I'm sure that many southerners would say that they could never live in Pittsburgh because it's too cold. And I see their point. I can't stand Pittsburgh winters. But I like old-school city neighborhoods, which don't exist in many warm-weather places in the U.S. Minneapolis not only has even worse winters than Pittsburgh does, but it doesn't seem to offer much in the way of old-school city neighborhoods, either. So I wouldn't want to live there. And that's that.
So what? Winter sucks. Unless you're a little kid, maybe. When we were kids we used to ride sleds down hills like this one: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4805...Wve5w3clIw!2e0
Where can kids sled ride in some flat place?
There are definitely hills in the Twin Cities, most notably near the river. They're not super huge, but your linked hill is nothing super notable, either.
Last edited by Maintainschaos; 06-12-2015 at 11:54 AM..
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