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I’m not being obtuse. I’m saying your examples of barbershops, liquor stores, laundromats aren’t what makes a city a bigger or more urban or vibrant city. They are commodities. They can be found anywhere where there is people. It’s a ridiculously low bar to have. I don’t care if they are essential. Third world countries have them. Maybe it’s a little elitist for me to say, but I kind of want my city to have better and more enriching amenities than that. That’s why I live in a city, otherwise I could live in Duncan Oklahoma. I also care about F500 companies because my job opportunities are tied with the economic outlook and growth of my city.
As you said-this comment was elitist. Kinda hard not to see it as not elitist.
Most people don’t actually live where they can walk to the liquor store grocery store corner store, HVAC repair and post office all in a 10 minute radius. That’s not most of America.
I’ve always lived in very urban environments and rarely did they have more access to anything other than what I’ve listed. What amenities are you looking for? In 99.9% sure I could take public transit and access them in either one of my cities-Bmore or Boston-within 25 minutes. Movie theaters and restaurants are all within walking or biking distance of where I live even if they low or moderate income areas..I could still be there quickly.
LA in its physical form does not invite you to walk or even socialize in front of your house like areas I’m more accustomed to. When you’re on your stoop in Baltimore your in the public sphere and liable to bump into folks you know. That’s where folks drink Coronas, put out furniture, some people even bring TVs and tents outside and watch the raven game as they’re set up splays into the streets and it’s a whole family watching TV directly in front of their house essentially in the street. The nature of setback and yards in LA removes you from the public sphere in a way.
Ridiculously low bar for who? Maybe you.... but you don’t speak for all 600k people in Baltimore or the 1.5 million people in Philly or the 8.3 million people in NYC. Those “low bar commodities” are essential because millions of people either a) can’t afford to live in the suburbs where a car is required to get to the “low bar commodities” or b) people
simply like the ease of being a 2 minute walk from the grocery store instead of a 15 minute car/bike ride irregardless of their social/economic status.
That’s great you care about F500 companies, a lot of people who live in cities don’t. It doesn’t make you better then them any more than them better than you. Different boats for different folks.
Chill man. No one said who was better or not. Just not the kind of amenities I look for in cities or for choosing which neighborhood to live in a city. I don’t care about barbershops, liquor stores or laundromats. I just don’t and neither do the vast majority of millennials I know. If that’s mostly all that city offers, then there are plenty of other cities that offer much more within a convenient commute or walk.
2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore? The working poor you champion about in your post above don’t have a 2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore. They often live in food deserts. Maybe if you live in Fells you have a 2 minute walk to the Whole Foods there.
Chill man. No one said who was better or not. Just not the kind of amenities I look for in cities or for choosing which neighborhood to live in a city. I don’t care about barbershops, liquor stores or laundromats. I just don’t and neither do the vast majority of millennials I know. If that’s mostly all that city offers, then there are plenty of other cities that offer much more within a convenient commute or walk.
You’re still underrating those amenities. I go to one of those at least every week. What are the amenities you want? Pilates studios? Ax throwing shops? That’s also within walking distinct of me-maybe 5/6 minutes max) on S Haven street in Baltimore (I’ve never gone, because it’s silly and a waste of money).
Seriously-what are these oh so special urban amenities? The ones you care about...
I’m a millennial who 100% cares about proximity to the barbershop, liquor store, cornerstore, day cares and bars.
I think DC can build a zone like Paris in the inner core, but have lower density parts of the city outside of that. It will create a vibrancy and energy over a much larger distance (35-40 sq. miles) than any city outside of NYC and Chicago. One thing that makes DC different is the amount of activity centers spread throughout the city with so many other areas being developed every year. A consistent high-rise area with buildings inside that area averaging 9-15 stories.
You hold DC "urban fabric" to a totally different standard than other cities.
Even at your insane 16 sq mile Downtown core assertion you make you include areas like this (between the navy yard and Lafayette Sq)
the truth is DC has a marginally larger core than Boston or Philly. because there really isn't that much space over 15 floors in either city. If you decapitated Downtown Boston at 15 floors. you'd make up the space by having like the North End, 1/2 of Beacon Hill and Bulfinch Triangle be built to 15 floors not 1/3rd of the city.
you are talking about 5.5 sq miles instead of 4 not 12 sq miles vs 3.
Chill man. No one said who was better or not. Just not the kind of amenities I look for in cities or for choosing which neighborhood to live in a city. I don’t care about barbershops, liquor stores or laundromats. I just don’t and neither do the vast majority of millennials I know. If that’s mostly all that city offers, then there are plenty of other cities that offer much more within a convenient commute or walk.
2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore? The working poor you champion about in your post above don’t have a 2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore. They often live in food deserts. Maybe if you live in Fells you have a 2 minute walk to the Whole Foods there.
You’re totally wrong . Super wrong. Just not even base in fact. Stop it.
You’re unaware of the Aldi in McEdlerry Park, Shoppers Mondawmin and Liberty Ave. or the Save A lot in Pigtoen. Or the Island Market in Park Heights. you don’t know about The Avenue Market or Northeast Market. Or the Giant in Edmondson Village. Or the Safeway in Charles Village. you don’t know Baltimore- at all-and you’re trying to talk like you do and it’s woefully inaccurate and inadequate. Do your research
You’re still underrating those amenities. I go to one of those at least every week. What are the amenities you want? Pilates studios? Ax throwing shops? That’s also within walking distinct of me-maybe 5/6 minutes max) on S Haven street in Baltimore (I’ve never gone, because it’s silly and a waste of money).
Seriously-what are these oh so special urban amenities? The ones you care about...
I’m a millennial who 100% cares about proximity to the barbershop, liquor store, cornerstore, day cares and bars.
The residential neighborhood I live in in Seattle has 3 full scale grocery stores (of varying quality) within a 10 minute walk, day cares, preschools, dozens of bars within walking distance, dozens of very decent restaurants, library, bookstores, 4 neighborhood parks, recital halls, science museum, children’s museum, community pool, gyms, sculpture park. All walkable. The downtown core is about a 10-15 min bus ride away and so Pike Place is easy to get to as well, which is one of the largest and oldest public farmers markets in the country. Few cities even in the top 5 have anything close to Pike Place. Then there is the ferry terminal, International District all in that area too. I can access all 3 pro sports and one D1 college stadiums by 15-20 min public transit.
You’re unaware of the Aldi in McEdlerry Park, Shoppers Mondawmin and Liberty Ave. or the Save A lot in Pigtoen. Or the Island Market in Park Heights. you don’t know about The Avenue Market or Northeast Market. Or the Giant in Edmondson Village. Or the Safeway in Charles Village. you don’t know Baltimore- at all-and you’re trying to talk like you do and it’s woefully inaccurate and inadequate. Do your research
There’s a big difference between 30 min walk and 2 minute walk. I was addressing the other poster who is stressing the 2 minute walk part. Honestly, it’s not hard to see where the food deserts are in Baltimore. Just go to Google maps and type grocery store. You will see large areas within Baltimore proper that have no grocery stores. There are obviously parts with grocery stores, but stressing 2 minute walk like it’s the norm in Baltimore is just not true.
You can now take a subsidized Lyft if you are one of the 25% of Baltimore residents who live in a food desert. 25% is not a small share and would account for an even larger share of the poor. https://www.baltimoresun.com/politic...msm-story.html
Yeah no food deserts in Baltimore. I wasn’t born yesterday, mate.
Chill man. No one said who was better or not. Just not the kind of amenities I look for in cities or for choosing which neighborhood to live in a city. I don’t care about barbershops, liquor stores or laundromats. I just don’t and neither do the vast majority of millennials I know. If that’s mostly all that city offers, then there are plenty of other cities that offer much more within a convenient commute or walk.
2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore? The working poor you champion about in your post above don’t have a 2 minute walk to a grocer in Baltimore. They often live in food deserts. Maybe if you live in Fells you have a 2 minute walk to the Whole Foods there.
When I lived in downtown Baltimore a little more than 10 years ago, you could count the number of real grocery stores on 1 hand, so I would say more like a 20-30min walk depending on where you live. There was an express Super Fresh on Charles street, a Whole Foods in Harbor East/ Fells Point, and a Safeway in Canton. I remember when I first moved to the city, thinking how odd it was that this is a major US city and there were only 3 quality grocery stores. At the time Lexington Market had a small grocery store that I went to once, and immediately walked out of when everything looked really old and I looked at the expiration dates and realized that everything was months passed expired.
It was embarrassing for Baltimore, and things like this show how far behind Baltimore is from being a “major city.” I sincerely hope that at least the grocery store situation has improved. At first I thought this may be an urban trend with fewer grocery stores, but in downtown Chicago and in each individual neighborhoods (at least on the north side), there is a Whole Foods, Mariano’s (Wegman’s equivalent), Trader Joe’s, Aldi, or Jewel (equivalent to Giant/ Safeway) every few blocks.
The residential neighborhood I live in in Seattle has 3 full scale grocery stores (of varying quality) within a 10 minute walk, day cares, preschools, dozens of bars within walking distance, dozens of very decent restaurants, library, bookstores, 4 neighborhood parks, recital halls, science museum, children’s museum, community pool, gyms, sculpture park. All walkable. The downtown core is about a 10-15 min bus ride away and so Pike Place is easy to get to as well, which is one of the largest and oldest public farmers markets in the country. Few cities even in the top 5 have anything close to Pike Place. Then there is the ferry terminal, International District all in that area too. I can access all 3 pro sports and one D1 college stadiums by 15-20 min public transit.
So let’s not trivialize it as ax throwing.
You listed everything that’s within walking distance of me. The only thing is the blacks on wax museum and the Reginald Lewis Museum is more of a bike ride. I have access to Ellwood park, Patterson park and it’s poool, dog park etc. the children’s museum is more like a 10 minute drive. I can walk to two libraries, quickly. If I want to get across the inner harbor I could potentially walk and take a water taxi.
But this is me living in a working class neighborhood, not one for he trendier ones like Bolton Hill Mount Vernon Fells or Canton. Still the Baltimore Ohio RailRoad museum is an excellent one in a rough sort of West Baltimore.
That being said I don’t go to museums or whatever very often. Not nearly as much as I use a liquor store barbershop or the corner store. Those are destinations I’m fine driving too.
The difference between Seattle and Baltimore is SFHs become omnipresent in Seattle and they don’t in Bmore . The mom and pop businesses built in rowhomes stretch deep into Baltimore and to it edges. Including those seedy bar lounges/clubs. As do (mostly abandoned, but some open) favorites and warehouses. They’re dropped into residential areas too.
I just don’t agree that Seattle is more urban in function nor in form aside form it’s downtown which is undoubtedly more urban than Bmore’s downtown.
LA in its physical form does not invite you to walk or even socialize in front of your house like areas I’m more accustomed to. When you’re on your stoop in Baltimore your in the public sphere and liable to bump into folks you know. That’s where folks drink Coronas, put out furniture, some people even bring TVs and tents outside and watch the raven game as they’re set up splays into the streets and it’s a whole family watching TV directly in front of their house essentially in the street. The nature of setback and yards in LA removes you from the public sphere in a way.
You see lots of that type of activity in East LA, south LA, NELA, except with small yards. It's different than what you're used to, but for me it's hard to imagine how sitting with friends on a couch on the sidewalk is preferable to being in your yard, nor do I see such activities as why most people live in urban areas.
As for the quality of the walk in LA, I agree. Setting crime aside, walking in most of the core of LA is less pedestrian friendly than all of the cities that it's being compared to. Having walked extensively in LA, SF, NYC, and Seattle I can say that for me, the amount of curb cuts is the biggest issue with the speed of cars second. Long blocks only a minor issue but I've probably gotten used to that. The stuff about narrow sidewalks is a non-issue. But in my experience and opinion, how much worse the walks are in LA is way overstated on these forums. I enjoy walking in LA and do it all the time.
Now the next part is important. What you're giving up in walk (minor imo) you're gaining in auto access. Things are changing and may be different in just a few years, but as of now and for the last 80 years, having access to a car has been a huge bonus for quality of life for most people in the country. The core of LA is unique in that you don't "need" a car almost as much as anywhere. But you can own one if you want.
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