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Is someone trying to say that one of these other cities ranks above Minneapolis and Detroit? I can't believe anyone would believe that. Well, maybe some Cleveland backers, but otherwise...?
I'm not entirely sure on the motive because only the people that made the arguments would know about that, but I do get that feeling in this thread, yes.
In Post #141 someone squeezed Minneapolis into a tier with cities that its already passed up quite some time ago in the diversity, international, global, and cosmopolitan aspects.
In Post #117 someone literally denied the obvious publicly at the expense of Detroit and Minneapolis. Either that or they aren't used to using MSA/CSA as the basis of comparison automatically when we compare these cities since their argument stemmed off of city propers.
In Post #111 someone displayed disbelief at the idea that Minneapolis and Detroit are excluded from the topic (diversity/internationalism/globalism/cosmopolitanism), despite them factually warranting exclusion from this topic.
I'd say there's pieces in play all over this thread where at various times people have tried to make that argument but haven't been able to support it with any current statistics or information. I'll make this fair, if people feel Detroit and Minneapolis belong here in this thread with the other cities on the poll, then they can make their case and prove it with statistics and facts. To those gearing themselves up to make their cases, good luck, you'll need it, LOL.
I would venture that a larger percentage of Pittsburgh and Cleveland immigrants moved there by choice, rather than being placed there, and their immigrant populations are probably more diverse. And then there's the matter of that tiny African-American population
Cleveland and especially Pittsburgh don't have sizable immigrant populations though. That's the thing.
It probably would help if I put some numbers to it. Below are the immigrant populations by metro area as of 2013. The percentages next to the numbers represent the percent of the whole population that the immigrants represent. Ill only list the cities discussed on this thread:
Perhaps that's why you don't live in Ohio anymore. Nice state, but none of their cities are international at all. Columbus seems to be pulling in a good number of Africans, but outside that there is no international flavor to any of the cities in the state.
Cleveland has a pretty large Hispanic population. Remember, those numbers don't include Puerto Ricans or undocumented immigrants. Most of the Hispanics here are Puerto Rican or Central American (and possibly undocumented). There are a good number of Arabic people here, as well as African. I teach ESL classes in Cleveland, and they bring a rainbow of students from all over the world. They all say they love Cleveland.
Last edited by Cleverfield; 06-01-2016 at 08:56 PM..
Cleveland and especially Pittsburgh don't have sizable immigrant populations though. That's the thing.
It probably would help if I put some numbers to it. Below are the immigrant populations by metro area as of 2013. The percentages next to the numbers represent the percent of the whole population that the immigrants represent. Ill only list the cities discussed on this thread:
That's a fairly tight band from Columbus to Cleveland, so it's more or less a wash for cities in that band while Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Louisville are obviously not in the running when it comes to this metric. Another thing to keep in mind is that Puerto Ricans aren't included as immigrants but are culturally quite different from any region of the US and Cleveland has a lot of Puerto Ricans compared to pretty much any of these cities.
Coupled to the international population, as I stated earlier somewhere, if you look at global and international in terms of overall economic impact, multinational company headquarters, and global or internationally recognized institutions (research universities, internationally recognized performing arts, internationally popular sports franchises which pretty much just means basketball, specialized institutes such as hospitals in the case of Cleveland), then within the OP's cities, Cleveland and St. Louis come across as doing comparatively well on those metrics, but I think Cleveland comes out slightly ahead.
Of the cities mentioned, your list pretty much has the only significant contenders though Kansas City, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis would probably be towards the bottom of this pack. Louisville should probably be completely out due to its small population size (complete with very small immigrant population) and GDP and its more or less complete lack of any global/international institutions or almost any major international corporate headquarters save for Yum Brands, but Yum Brands by itself is hugely global because fried chicken is the single greatest gift America has given to the world.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-01-2016 at 10:42 PM..
Louisville should probably be completely out due to its small population size (complete with very small immigrant population) and GDP and its more or less complete lack of any global/international institutions or almost any major international corporate headquarters save for Yum Brands, but Yum Brands by itself is hugely global because fried chicken is the single greatest gift America has given to the world.
This is a Midwestern based thread and I have no desire to start a debate about Louisville here. However, not arguing your points but a matter of fact checking: Fortune 100 Humana and it's over $40billion in revenue are also headquartered downtown Louisville. There are others like Papa Johns Pizza, but that's a fairly big one to overlook.
No every city on this list has a better economy than detroit.
My point is due to size, Chicago, Detroit, and mpls are leagues more international than any city on this list.
And despite all the voting for CLE and STL the reality is Columbus has more international population, and no one can touch Louisville's growth in international population....and this means dozens more international stores and restaurants than one could ever imagine in these cities.
I mean none of these cities really has many international flights anymore. Maybe CLE has 3 or something and usually seasonal. Toronto barely counts since it is less than 2 hours away.
In fact Louisville has more direct international flights than every city in this poll combined...but almost none are for people (maybe a couple seasonal to Caribbean), only UPS cargo So that alone is more international than any other airport listed.....
I could give you a tour of Columbus or Louisville that would really surprise the heck out of you with regards to the new immigration of the last 20 years....
Really Indy and KC too. The square that runs from Indianapolis, to Columbus, south to Louisville and up to Cincinnati is the most successful economic region in the Midwest right now. Even taking Louisville out for the Midwest purest who believe a mile of water creates a different area, then certainly Columbus, Indianapolis, and now even Cincinnati, are doing a lot right. And immigrants are coming because of it.
I know this as I do a lot of business in this area. So...I think STL is BARELY the most international metro here, with CLE and PITT not far behind, but one has to wonder if Columbus, Louisville, Cincy, Indy, even KC are all really right there, neck and neck. At the end of the day, none are international cities and all are mid sized!
Cleveland has a pretty large Hispanic population. Remember, those numbers don't include Puerto Ricans or undocumented immigrants. Most of the Hispanics here are Puerto Rican or Central American (and possibly undocumented). There are a good number of Arabic people here, as well as African. I teach ESL classes in Cleveland, and they bring a rainbow of students from all over the world. They all say they love Cleveland.
Lets look at the numbers. There are roughly:
62,000 Puerto Ricans in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Los Angeles and Allentown, PA)
20,000-25,000 Arabs in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Baltimore)
22,000 Mexicans in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Dodge City, KS)
15,000 Indians in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Richmond, VA)
12,000 Chinese in the Cleveland Area (comparable with St. Louis)
12,000 Central Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Fayetteville, AR)
12,000 Serbian Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Chicago)
No other ethnic group has over 10,000 members.
Thats a pretty small list considering the size of Cleveland's metro area. The only ethnicities that stand out as sizable compared to the national average are Puerto Ricans, Arabs, and Serbians.
This is a Midwestern based thread and I have no desire to start a debate about Louisville here. However, not arguing your points but a matter of fact checking: Fortune 100 Humana and it's over $40billion in revenue are also headquartered downtown Louisville. There are others like Papa Johns Pizza, but that's a fairly big one to overlook.
ok carry on
Humana is very large, though not so international. Sheer size is important though. Papa John's does have outlets in dozens of other countries and is bad pizza so that's good.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-02-2016 at 07:43 AM..
62,000 Puerto Ricans in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Los Angeles and Allentown, PA)
20,000-25,000 Arabs in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Baltimore)
22,000 Mexicans in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Dodge City, KS)
15,000 Indians in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Richmond, VA)
12,000 Chinese in the Cleveland Area (comparable with St. Louis)
12,000 Central Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Fayetteville, AR)
12,000 Serbian Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Chicago)
No other ethnic group has over 10,000 members.
Thats a pretty small list considering the size of Cleveland's metro area. The only ethnicities that stand out as sizable compared to the national average are Puerto Ricans, Arabs, and Serbians.
Peter where are you getting these numbers you have me curious.
62,000 Puerto Ricans in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Los Angeles and Allentown, PA)
20,000-25,000 Arabs in the Cleveland area. (comparable with Baltimore)
22,000 Mexicans in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Dodge City, KS)
15,000 Indians in the Cleveland Area (comparable with Richmond, VA)
12,000 Chinese in the Cleveland Area (comparable with St. Louis)
12,000 Central Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Fayetteville, AR)
12,000 Serbian Americans in Cleveland (comparable with Chicago)
No other ethnic group has over 10,000 members.
Thats a pretty small list considering the size of Cleveland's metro area. The only ethnicities that stand out as sizable compared to the national average are Puerto Ricans, Arabs, and Serbians.
I don't reckon this would be something that favors any of these cities particularly over one or another. As in, the breakdown for the other cities mentioned isn't going to really get any more favorable since, excluding Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Louisville, those other cities aren't really going to be getting all that many ethnic groups with over 10,000 people in the community.
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