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The worlds largest manufacturer of recreational boats is Bayliner, headquartered in Arlington, WA just north of Seattle. However it's parent company, Brunswick Boat Group, is headquartered in Knoxville, TN of all places.
I can see how distance from water could be a factor but I'm not sure why that would be dispositive. You are never far from water in NYC either, but I wouldn't say NYC has a more "ingrained" water culture than Los Angeles. Rhode Island is called "The Ocean State" yet you don't really see anyone making an argument for Providence here.
I've never lived in Los Angeles so I can't speak to its "water culture." But I think some of the things you may be saying about LA (i.e., not as much attention given to marine life) may be based on speculation, not any facts or experience living there.
I just gave you 2 posts explaining why Charleston being on and near water affects the city/metro - like people have done for Miami, Seattle, Nola, etc. If just being on the water was a defining reason then any coastal city could apply to this poll.
I didn't say LA doesn't give attention to marine life, I said I'm sure they do, but I know for a fact that Charleston cares so much, it can be seen as annoying or ridiculous. Charleston is easily a more water-defined city.
LA has been molded by its proximity to the ocean, the mountains, and being in a valley with a Mediterranean climate, and to a smaller extent being between San Fran and Mexico. Charleston's existence and function today is heavily thanks to the ocean and its 4 rivers. Water-related disasters, such as Hurricane Hugo, have also molded how Charleston is today.
If Charleston was on the poll, I'm sure it could manage more than 1 vote.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Is this intended to be sarcastic? Charleston is not remotely close to Miami as far as the things specified in the OP. There are some nice areas in and around Charleston like the Isle of Palms, but it gets cold down there, and it's really more of a seasonal thing like the Jersey Shore and certain parts of Long Island. The water temperature in Miami rarely if ever drops below 70 degrees, which allows year-round water recreation of any type. I don't see how the two are comparable.
No. Charleston and Miami have a few similarities, water and not water related, but you took my "Charleston is a smaller Miami" too literally.
Charleston beaches definitely arent equivalent to the Jersey Shore or LI. I've been to the beach in January and the water was just warm enough. You're right it's not year-round affair like Miami, but I really don't see why that matters.
Seattle water is always cold, yet it's the clear #2 in this thread.
No. Charleston and Miami have a few similarities, water and not water related, but you took my "Charleston is a smaller Miami" too literally.
I didn't take it too literally. I don't think Charleston is in any way comparable to Miami as far as the way water factors into recreation and the overall identity of the cities ("Miami" is almost synonymous with South Beach). The weather plays a large role in this, but so does the natural aesthetic of Miami compared to Charleston (or any U.S. city, honestly).
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Originally Posted by Jandrew5
Charleston beaches definitely arent equivalent to the Jersey Shore or LI. I've been to the beach in January and the water was just warm enough. You're right it's not year-round affair like Miami, but I really don't see why that matters.
I wasn't talking about the quality of the beaches, but rather the more seasonal nature of resort areas along the Atlantic in the Carolinas. South Beach, by contrast, stays busy with jet skiing, snorkeling, swimming, parasailing, etc. throughout the winter, and never really has an "off" season the way areas farther up along the Atlantic Seaboard do. The off-peak season for Miami is really starting around now and will last through the fall, but even then its waters will still be as busy as anywhere else in the U.S.
The temperature matters a lot because people--whether it be tourists or locals--are going to do more water-related activities with 75 degree water than they are with 50 degree water. The average water temperature in Charleston in January is 50 degrees, and while you may be a superman who can withstand freezing water temperatures, most people are not. The ocean in Charleston is colder in January than it is in Los Angeles and we always hear about how freezing cold the Pacific is.
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Originally Posted by Jandrew5
Seattle water is always cold, yet it's the clear #2 in this thread.
No. 2 really doesn't matter. It's sort of like arguing who the No. 2 basketball player in the CvC forum is after Lebron James.
I wouldn't put Seattle ahead of Los Angeles simply because you can't get into the water there. Not much different from Providence in that regard.
I didn't take it too literally. I don't think Charleston is in any way comparable to Miami as far as the way water factors into recreation and the overall identity of the cities ("Miami" is almost synonymous with South Beach). The weather plays a large role in this, but so does the natural aesthetic of Miami compared to Charleston (or any U.S. city, honestly).
Okay well that's the beauty of an opinion. If Miami is synonymous with South Beach, then Charleston is synonymous with the coast. I don't see the difference here. Both have beaches, busy sea ports, cruise ports, hurricanes, pricey water real estate, fish mascots, issues with alligators, culture defined by water (Cuban and Gullah), etc.
Both have designed their cities and culture around the water. Miami is wedged between the ocean and wetlands. Charleston is wedged between 4 rivers and a harbor. Both have a natural maritime aesthetic.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
I wasn't talking about the quality of the beaches, but rather the more seasonal nature of resort areas along the Atlantic in the Carolinas. South Beach, by contrast, stays busy with jet skiing, snorkeling, swimming, parasailing, etc. throughout the winter, and never really has an "off" season the way areas farther up along the Atlantic Seaboard do. The off-peak season for Miami is really starting around now and will last through the fall, but even then its waters will still be as busy as anywhere else in the U.S.
I wasn't talking about quality. Charleston is seasonal, but not in the same way as Long Island. Still don't see why it matters though. Who cares if you can't boat 365 days a year? Point is you can boat.
Sure Charlestonians cant typically whip out the jet skis in January like someone in Miami, but at least they can still do it, and do it enough where it is apart of the culture. You're not going to meet many people in Charleston who are afraid of the water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
The temperature matters a lot because people--whether it be tourists or locals--are going to do more water-related activities with 75 degree water than they are with 50 degree water. The average water temperature in Charleston in January is 50 degrees, and while you may be a superman who can withstand freezing water temperatures, most people are not. The ocean in Charleston is colder in January than it is in Los Angeles and we always hear about how freezing cold the Pacific is.
Don't get ridiculous. I didn't say I was Superman. That was an unusually hot period, the water was not cold. Average does not equal absolute. And again, you're pushing the temperature point hard, but you're still excusing everything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
No. 2 really doesn't matter. It's sort of like arguing who the No. 2 basketball player in the CvC forum is after Lebron James.
I wouldn't put Seattle ahead of Los Angeles simply because you can't get into the water there. Not much different from Providence in that regard.
We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Apparently your criteria is how much you can swim and how hot the water always is.
My criteria is how much water has affected a city, from cuisine to water sports to boating to scenery to general city atmosphere, which is what the OP asked about.
Getting redundant, but again, Charleston has:
- The geography with an ocean, a 94-square mile recreational lake, 4 rivers, barrier islands, intracoastal waterway, and miles of coastline - saltwater and freshwater. That is a lot of water.
- An economy with a good coastal tourism, shipping, and naval focus
- A dominance of tropical palmetto palm trees and other flora you will only find in coastal areas, plus extensive wetlands
- A history of hurricanes and floods, and issues with rust and erosion
- Easily accessible beaches where going to the beach doesn't have to be planned out
- A culture of being on, in, or by the water
- 2 private islands, 3 residential/beach islands, and 2, soon to be 3 suburban islands
- Special laws, requirements, and care taken when it comes to marine animals
- Roads shaped and traffic issues caused by the water-shaped geography
- A lack of roads, caused by the water-shaped geography (the rest of interstate 526), and more bridges
- The Lowcountry art and Lowcountry cuisine, which is heavily coastal and seafood influenced
- Port and cruise industry, an aircraft carrier, multiple marinas, and yacht and rowing clubs
- History (HL Hunley, slavery and plantations, 2 wars, Blackbeard and other pirates) and Gullah culture
- Like Miami, will soon have to really take into consideration sea level rise
- Geography shapes the demographic and political landscape of the metro
- Used to have the 3rd largest US navy base, the largest submarine port, and a 145 acre navy shipyard. That complex is no longer a navy base, but still has maritime uses, including for NOAA, and even a Maritime Law Enforcement Academy for the Coast Guard
- Annual water-related festivals
- Charleston Maritime Center and maritime museums
- A boating-focused STEM program offered at 6 schools
- The breeze from the water is used as an A/C alternative for some houses
- Clean air, especially for as much industry as Charleston has. The reasoning from the ALA is because "sea breezes tend to sweep the coastal air, keeping it cleaner than inland areas."
- Sports. Charleston has teams named the Stingrays and the Riverdogs.
Again LA exists because of the ocean, mountains, valley, and the great year round climate. Charleston owes it's existence solely to the ocean and rivers. Water is obviously important to both, but if you still think water plays a more important role with LA than Charleston, then okay. We'll have to agree to disagree.
It's too difficult to lessen Miami with Miami Beach a RESORT city in its midst. White sand beaches and blue-green waters. Then yes the Everglades to its west. Tourism is HUGE just for its coastal amenities. Then you have a HUGE Port too. So quite the full package for its water.
But purely Charleston a honorable mention as I did Chicago as a Lake city. Not formally in the poll. But the OP listed Lake as a body of water. Just no predominate lake city on the poll.
I would put Seattle above Miami and LA on the back burner.
How many people will be actually be in the Puget Sound's 52 degree water this weekend?
The water will be a part of nearly any coastal city's identity whether that be Mobile, Baltimore, San Francisco or Boston. I wouldn't say Seattle or New Orleans, for example, have a richer "water" tradition than Boston, which is also known for its fair share of seafood cuisine and nearby water activities and amenities (e.g., Head of the Charles). I agree, however, with the point OyCrumbler was making, which is that relatively few people in some of these cities actually interact with the water (meaning actually get inside of it), which is an extremely common, year-round thing in Miami. Yeah, there's boating in a lot of cities (including Buffalo), but there's a ton of boating in Miami too along with a ton of other water recreation all 12 months of the year.
I wasn't talking about quality. Charleston is seasonal, but not in the same way as Long Island. Still don't see why it matters though. Who cares if you can't boat 365 days a year? Point is you can boat.
It makes ALL the difference in the world. I mean, you can go boating on Lake Erie outside of Buffalo, but who in their right mind is going to argue that it's similar to being in Aruba? Likewise, Charleston is not similar to Miami because there are a solid 6 months of the year where the water is not warm enough for non-boating recreation.
How many people will be actually be in the Puget Sound's 52 degree water this weekend?
The water will be a part of nearly any coastal city's identity whether that be Mobile, Baltimore, San Francisco or Boston. I wouldn't say Seattle or New Orleans, for example, have a richer "water" tradition than Boston, which is also known for its fair share of seafood cuisine and nearby water activities and amenities (e.g., Head of the Charles). I agree, however, with the point OyCrumbler was making, which is that relatively few people in some of these cities actually interact with the water (meaning actually get inside of it), which is an extremely common, year-round thing in Miami. Yeah, there's boating in a lot of cities (including Buffalo), but there's a ton of boating in Miami too along with a ton of other water recreation all 12 months of the year.
Getting in the water isn't that important to me being that most of our water is disgusting. I don't have a problem with anyone putting Miami on top at all, I see the reasons why. If we're talking regions instead of cities (and in reality I think we are) south Louisiana has countless homes and marinas on bayous, rivers, and lakes just like South Florida. And the reason why I put Seattle above is because I see a larger connection with New Orleans and Seattle and their industrial and fishing uses and that matches with the scenery I grew up in. So it's more of a bias that shapes my opinion. I forgot about the Everglades though.
Overall there's more to water culture than swimming.
Overall there's more to water culture than swimming.
Put it this way, what do Seattle, NYC, New Orleans, Boston or Chicago have going on water-wise that Miami doesn't? There's a lot of talk about boating, but Florida leads the nation in boat registrations with the bulk of those registrations being in S. Florida, so it's not like there isn't a big boating culture there. On the flipside, there's a whole lot Miami has to offer as far as water-related activities are concerned that really nowhere in the continental U.S. can match, which is year-round access to gorgeous beaches and water. And it's not like its inhabitants are strangers to water considering a majority are of Caribbean descent (Cuba, DR, Jamaica, Haiti, etc).
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Originally Posted by annie_himself
If we're talking regions instead of cities (and in reality I think we are)
The OP asked about "cities," so why would be talking about regions?
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