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I'm not sure that easily explains it. There are areas in Fayetteville, for example, that have always been in the city of Fayetteville prior to multiple rounds of annexation. This is a notorious housing project in Fayetteville in an area that has essentially always been Fayetteville, wasn't annexed into the city:
It really looks like that, manicured lawns, minimal trash and grime, etc. Part of it is that NC city housing authorities appear to spend a lot more time on maintenance of structures under their control, than housing authorities in other states. The other part, I think there is a fundamental lining built into Carolina cities around education. I believe NC has the largest HBCU circuit, so that, coupled with the large PWI circuit in NC, when considering that most of the "bad" areas in Carolina cities are black areas, these areas are never far from access to education. They are largely embedded into the community of the city. I think there is a fundamental thing long built into the culture that doesn't allow as dramatic a jump into being a "war zone" as you would find in other places...
Just a guess, but the annexation thing is a non starter because many of the bad areas of Fayetteville, Durham, Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro, Winston, these areas are not the results of annexation. Something else allows these cities to not have the dramatic violence levels other places have. Durham has long been seen as a bad city in NC, yet has never had a murder rate above 20 per 100k, only once or twice topped 25/100k and its worst areas are mild in trash/grime/danger. Think about that. Durham is "bad", never had a 30/100k murder rate, and for this decade is only slightly over 11/100k. In fact, none of the large NC cities have ever had a 30/100k, and between all of them combined, their worst years in the late 80s/early 90s of 20-25/100k, were even mild for that time period, where cities nationwide were often over 30/100k and the worst cities of that era were posting rates 50-60-70-80/100k with regularity...
That is actually my point, as the areas that are likely to be annexed are those that would be middle class suburbia in the metros of similar size in other regions/many states.
Many states, including those in the Northeast also have public housing that look like that as well(that Fayetteville street view looks similar to Melone Village in Auburn NY or Liberty Gardens in Rome NY).
I think the county school systems in NC allow for more access in terms of the system, but can have cons in terms of travel time/school assignments.
I dare say that crime in many cities gets overblown, as it is usually a section/lifestyle thing and NC's worst cities for crime are actually smaller like Rocky Mount and Lumberton.
Not to sidetrack the thread, but just wanted to clarify the point.
I don't think he was saying it's impossible to find things to do there. Just that he finds it boring and sterile compared to peer cities.
It's been a long time since I went through NC, but the word boring comes up a lot regarding Charlotte. This isn't surprising given the relatively blank slates that "Uptown" and other denser areas of today started with.
Personally my filters for "interesting and exciting" tend to be about walkable urbanity, international cultures, topography, history, and other factors that Charlotte isn't known for, though it's made strides in the first two based on what I've kept up on.
None of Raleigh or Charlotte peer cities are known for that in reference to a large urban city. Most people would single-out NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran and maybe a few others that cover some of those things on any significant scale.
I do find some of Charlotte and Raleigh's ballyhooed peer cities vastly overrated when it comes those things you mentioned. Other than a few tourist traps, etc...both Charlotte and Raleigh do quite well against peer cities in entertainment, events, activities, etc. I've been to the Nashville's, Austins, etc. Please spare me the hyperbole regarding these places when compared to Charlotte or Raleigh. A day or two any of these "peer" cities is/was plenty enough for me. No one I know (in my NC circles) would make any of Charlotte peer cities a destination weekend outside of business travel. Those places are NOT akin to NYC, DC, Atlanta or Miami...hate to be the bearer of that reality...just sayin'.
None of Raleigh or Charlotte peer cities are known for that in reference to a large urban city. Most people would single-out NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran and maybe a few others that cover some of those things on any significant scale.
I do find some of Charlotte and Raleigh's ballyhooed peer cities vastly overrated when it comes those things you mentioned. Other than a few tourist traps, etc...both Charlotte and Raleigh do quite well against peer cities in entertainment, events, activities, etc. I've been to the Nashville's, Austins, etc. Please spare me the hyperbole regarding these places when compared to Charlotte or Raleigh. A day or two any of these "peer" cities is/was plenty enough for me. No one I know (in my NC circles) would make any of Charlotte peer cities a destination weekend outside of business travel. Those places are NOT akin to NYC, DC, Atlanta or Miami...hate to be the bearer of that reality...just sayin'.
I disagree, specifically when it comes to urban, walkable neighborhoods. Baltimore, New Orleans, Milwaukee, etc. may not be New York or Chicago, but they offer a decent built environment. I think you are painting a lot of cities with a broad brush.
None of Raleigh or Charlotte peer cities are known for that in reference to a large urban city. Most people would single-out NYC, LA, Chicago, San Fran and maybe a few others that cover some of those things on any significant scale.
I do find some of Charlotte and Raleigh's ballyhooed peer cities vastly overrated when it comes those things you mentioned. Other than a few tourist traps, etc...both Charlotte and Raleigh do quite well against peer cities in entertainment, events, activities, etc. I've been to the Nashville's, Austins, etc. Please spare me the hyperbole regarding these places when compared to Charlotte or Raleigh. A day or two any of these "peer" cities is/was plenty enough for me. No one I know (in my NC circles) would make any of Charlotte peer cities a destination weekend outside of business travel. Those places are NOT akin to NYC, DC, Atlanta or Miami...hate to be the bearer of that reality...just sayin'.
I totally disagree and is in no way true.. Its definitely your opinion and you might want to travel a little more and I must advise once you do, please see other districts of these cities besides the Tourist Traps, you would be doing your self a major favor. Charlotte peers have a lot offer outside business travel. If you like Charlotte, then that's your thing but.. I admit I don't hang out in Charlotte like that but it's just something about NC cities that just feels blah to me, even in the city area. Idk, I just don't get a character feel when it comes to Charlotte, idk.. Just not my thing. I always feel like I'm in a rush to get out of North Carolina when I'm there were its visiting family or just passing through to get to the Northeast but I guess everyone has there thing.
I think Nashville has elevated into the same tier that Charlotte has been a part of. Nashville began the decade in the tier Raleigh is in. All in all, Nashville lands somewhere between both but has a larger brand than either. It's been several years since I've been to Nashville and I'm due for another trip...
Charlotte and Raleigh both have peers that are more urban and have a stronger historical presence, so I'm not sure where that idea that they don't comes from. I will say that it isn't widely known, but Charlotte is more international than people think. East Charlotte in particular, as well as pockets of South Charlotte, are havens for Euro and Latin immigrants. Charlotte is the most diverse city in the Carolinas by miles and if the topic was specifically centered on internationalism, Charlotte looks really good compared to most of its peers (St Louis, KC, Denver, Baltimore, etc). Charlotte just obviously isn't widely known in this aspect...
I think this thread was really productive to see how people outside the Carolinas, people outside the East Coast, people outside the South, look at both cities!
The major difference between the two from a California perspective among people I know is that Charlotte is in South Carolina and Raleigh is in North Carolina. So they don’t know the difference and what they do know is wrong.
The Californians you know think that Charlotte is in South Carolina?
Then again, the more I think about it, this doesn't surprise me.
Probably as an effect of it being the larger city, Charlotte is more widely known in California. More West Coast flights from Charlotte (every time I go to California I route through Charlotte), and as mentioned, Charlotte has a much larger corporate presence. Anecdotally, I would say there are more Californians in Charlotte than Raleigh. Matter fact, I can't recall a single Californian I've met in Raleigh. Obviously there is some presence in Raleigh, but it is fairly common to meet a Californian in Charlotte, so it just seems to be the bigger draw of the two for relocated Californians...
I totally disagree and is in no way true.. Its definitely your opinion and you might want to travel a little more and I must advise once you do, please see other districts of these cities besides the Tourist Traps, you would be doing your self a major favor. Charlotte peers have a lot offer outside business travel. If you like Charlotte, then that's your thing but.. I admit I don't hang out in Charlotte like that but it's just something about NC cities that just feels blah to me, even in the city area. Idk, I just don't get a character feel when it comes to Charlotte, idk.. Just not my thing. I always feel like I'm in a rush to get out of North Carolina when I'm there were its visiting family or just passing through to get to the Northeast but I guess everyone has there thing.
Was just in Nashville for approx week last year (downtown/conference, MC Center). I kind of felt the same way, ok, enough already but I dig the Nashville buzz for some folks. Been to Tennessee and Nashville plenty of times over the years and definitely not a hermit, so I get's out and about (downtown, Vandy area, etc). It's just not a place I'd put on my go to visit again for a weekend excursion like Atlanta, DC or even New Orleans. Why would I? I live in Durham and it's just not that interesting/compelling to me. Not a diss but solid business travel destination. I guess having lived in DC metro (and city) has jaded me on all the touristy/urban fabric/character fluff..been there, done that. Maybe I'm just old now.
Btw, I've been everywhere in America, and do mean everywhere for significant stays in my former role as a technical sales/trainer for a fortune 100 co. Full disclosure, my bias is a bit more east coast centric for a variety of reasons, I dunno, maybe it's because I know some many people and things happening all the time. The RDU metro covers a lot these entertainment elements without even trying very hard. And maybe you should get out more in NC.
Hell, from a distance(travel) standpoint, I'd rather spend a weekend in Richmond or Tidewater area for mid-size metros. Both underrated for music, entertainment, etc.
I lived in the Charlotte area, from Buffalo. Left five years ago. It was ok.
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