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I'm not going to answer the control or outlook questions, but to put this into perspective, Lynchburg, Roanoke and Blacksburg are more in line with Binghamton, Utica and Glens Falls in terms of metro area population/size. So, that may be something to consider with this comparison.
VA as a state doesn't have that many more people than "Upstate" NY(about maybe 1-1.5 million more people, if that and depending on what you include with the latter).
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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I have the fortune to know somebody originally from rural Virginia, now living here in upstate NY. In fact, where she grew up is now quite urbanized, but 60 years ago it was no more city than Allegany county, NY is today.
Based on her stories and accounts, I would hazard that yes, interior VA has a lot in common with upstate NY in how they relate to/sometimes resent their highly populated and built up neighboring regions.
People aside, there are also some interesting parallels in the natural setting of both states.
Like CK touched on above, the I-90 corridor as it passes through the Ontario plains is not quite as analogous to interior VA as the rest of upstate would be. I'd argue that Buffalo to north Syracuse shares far, far more commonalities with the eastern Midwest, and Ontario, Canada. It's definitely a different creature from the southern tier or capital region, etc.
It will be interesting to see if any Virginians weigh in with some real insight. Rather than just, "eew no, we're nothing like those damn Yankees rabble rabble rabble". :P
It will be interesting to see if any Virginians weigh in with some real insight. Rather than just, "eew no, we're nothing like those damn Yankees rabble rabble rabble". :P
Same here. I'm trying to avoid the Yankee drama. I have lived in upstate NY and am moving to Southwestern VA, so this topic particularly interests me. I notice a lot of similarities.
I know that upstate NY relies heavily on downstate's economy. Wondering how dependent Southwestern VA is on NOVA's economy.
Same here. I'm trying to avoid the Yankee drama. I have lived in upstate NY and am moving to Southwestern VA, so this topic particularly interests me. I notice a lot of similarities.
I know that upstate NY relies heavily on downstate's economy. Wondering how dependent Southwestern VA is on NOVA's economy.
I'm thinking you mean in terms of what it gives to the government in relation to what it gets back, right?
I would say it is the same in VA in terms of NOVA and even SE VA versus the central/western half/ two-thirds of the state. Hopefully someone from VA will chime in.
I'm from nearby northeast TN and worked in southwest VA (Russell County) for several years and have friends and family throughout the region.
The first thing a lot of people don't understand about southwest VA is how big it actually is. Lee County, VA, the westernmost county in the state, is closer to Indianapolis than it is to Richmond. Lee County is about as far west as Detroit. Ewing, VA in Lee County in Roanoke is about four hours, but both are regarded as "southwest VA." Bristol, VA, the first city in VA as you enter TN from I-81, is about 2.5 hours from Roanoke.
Having worked in the region, I think using I-81 as a divider makes sense. At least up to Wytheville, anything north or west of I-81 is basically a train wreck in coal country. That area is extremely isolated, winding mountain roads, lack of cell service, lack of quality hospitals, retail services, many communities don't have municipal water, etc.
I went to Charlottesville last weekend and stopped in Salem, VA to see a friend's band in concert. Roanoke/Salem are not impressive at all to me. That area of the state has practically no economy. My guess is upstate NY is a lot better off than most of southwest VA.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
I'm from nearby northeast TN and worked in southwest VA (Russell County) for several years and have friends and family throughout the region.
The first thing a lot of people don't understand about southwest VA is how big it actually is. Lee County, VA, the westernmost county in the state, is closer to Indianapolis than it is to Richmond. Lee County is about as far west as Detroit. Ewing, VA in Lee County in Roanoke is about four hours, but both are regarded as "southwest VA." Bristol, VA, the first city in VA as you enter TN from I-81, is about 2.5 hours from Roanoke.
Having worked in the region, I think using I-81 as a divider makes sense. At least up to Wytheville, anything north or west of I-81 is basically a train wreck in coal country. That area is extremely isolated, winding mountain roads, lack of cell service, lack of quality hospitals, retail services, many communities don't have municipal water, etc.
I went to Charlottesville last weekend and stopped in Salem, VA to see a friend's band in concert. Roanoke/Salem are not impressive at all to me. That area of the state has practically no economy. My guess is upstate NY is a lot better off than most of southwest VA.
Economically there are some eye opening similarities most people would not expect. Although I would say upstate NY is doing better overall, it's not as wide a gap as one might expect. At least not in terms of recent decades.
NY doesn't have coal, so the issues relating to that are not present here. Likewise, NY long ago banned fracking, which is still a touchy subject here. All that said, if you remove the major urban centers from upstate (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany), suddenly the economic playing field between U-NY and W-VA is fairly leveled. Large swathes of rural and small town NY are still depressed.
However, it must be said that the upward mobility is quite different. Upstate NY is far more accessible than far western VA, so if you start talking exclusively south of the WV border, VA looks even grimmer in terms of economy, and NY can only compare to it with north country/the Adirondacks; but rich retirees in north country still paint a slightly different shade.
The last few years have been astounding for many pockets of long depressed NY, including where I live. I have seen hundreds of old abandoned homes along major roads torn down after sitting there for longer than I have been alive. I have seen Watkins Glen go from a rusty valley town that only shined in the summer, to this very affluent place it is currently. I've even seen recovery in tiny obscure places like Rock Stream and Irelandville. It's like somebody gave upstate NY a sudden injection of economic growth.
The only downside is that the cost of living here is sky rocketing, and it was already higher than most other states. Natives like me are being summarily priced out, but given no means to leave. I predict northern PA will see a sharp increase in population soon. haha
That recent recovery is reflected in the ARC's county by county reports too. As it is right now, Appalachian NY is all in recovery (Transitional as they put it), not a single distressed county in sight. Which, has not always been the case. This map also shows that parts of interior VA are actually doing even better than the southern tier this year, and other parts are doing far worse. An appropriate map for the economic side of the discussion!
However you slice it, things are still hard for Joe-Anybody the working individual regardless of which state they are in. A lot of these wealthy areas are home to people with stupid money, and a lot of struggling under them. The middle class is still an endangered species, sadly.
I'm from nearby northeast TN and worked in southwest VA (Russell County) for several years and have friends and family throughout the region.
The first thing a lot of people don't understand about southwest VA is how big it actually is. Lee County, VA, the westernmost county in the state, is closer to Indianapolis than it is to Richmond. Lee County is about as far west as Detroit. Ewing, VA in Lee County in Roanoke is about four hours, but both are regarded as "southwest VA." Bristol, VA, the first city in VA as you enter TN from I-81, is about 2.5 hours from Roanoke.
Having worked in the region, I think using I-81 as a divider makes sense. At least up to Wytheville, anything north or west of I-81 is basically a train wreck in coal country. That area is extremely isolated, winding mountain roads, lack of cell service, lack of quality hospitals, retail services, many communities don't have municipal water, etc.
I went to Charlottesville last weekend and stopped in Salem, VA to see a friend's band in concert. Roanoke/Salem are not impressive at all to me. That area of the state has practically no economy. My guess is upstate NY is a lot better off than most of southwest VA.
To put this into perspective, If "Upstate NY" was its own state, in terms of GDP, it would be on par/similar to states such as MD, CO, MN, TN, IN and AZ, give or take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...itories_by_GDP
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
To put this into perspective, If "Upstate NY" was its own state, in terms of GDP, it would be on par/similar to states such as MD, CO, MN, TN, IN and AZ, give or take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...itories_by_GDP
Economically there are some eye opening similarities most people would not expect. Although I would say upstate NY is doing better overall, it's not as wide a gap as one might expect. At least not in terms of recent decades.
NY doesn't have coal, so the issues relating to that are not present here. Likewise, NY long ago banned fracking, which is still a touchy subject here. All that said, if you remove the major urban centers from upstate (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany), suddenly the economic playing field between U-NY and W-VA is fairly leveled. Large swathes of rural and small town NY are still depressed.
However, it must be said that the upward mobility is quite different. Upstate NY is far more accessible than far western VA, so if you start talking exclusively south of the WV border, VA looks even grimmer in terms of economy, and NY can only compare to it with north country/the Adirondacks; but rich retirees in north country still paint a slightly different shade.
The last few years have been astounding for many pockets of long depressed NY, including where I live. I have seen hundreds of old abandoned homes along major roads torn down after sitting there for longer than I have been alive. I have seen Watkins Glen go from a rusty valley town that only shined in the summer, to this very affluent place it is currently. I've even seen recovery in tiny obscure places like Rock Stream and Irelandville. It's like somebody gave upstate NY a sudden injection of economic growth.
The only downside is that the cost of living here is sky rocketing, and it was already higher than most other states. Natives like me are being summarily priced out, but given no means to leave. I predict northern PA will see a sharp increase in population soon. haha
That recent recovery is reflected in the ARC's county by county reports too. As it is right now, Appalachian NY is all in recovery (Transitional as they put it), not a single distressed county in sight. Which, has not always been the case. This map also shows that parts of interior VA are actually doing even better than the southern tier this year, and other parts are doing far worse. An appropriate map for the economic side of the discussion!
However you slice it, things are still hard for Joe-Anybody the working individual regardless of which state they are in. A lot of these wealthy areas are home to people with stupid money, and a lot of struggling under them. The middle class is still an endangered species, sadly.
When people think of Virginia, they think of NOVA. No one really thinks of southwest VA. Honestly, those extreme parts of western VA have far more to do with Kentucky and West Virginia than they do with anything east of I-81.
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