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We disagree on what this thread was supposed to be about which is fine. We can agree to disagree.
Why does the uplifting and celebration of Black American culture equal the diminishing or intimidation from immigrant cultures? Can't we uplift all cultures from people with Black skin? Ours and theirs?
I grew up eating food from Guyana, Jamaica, Trinidad, and many other countries. I have friends from all over Africa and the Caribbean. My brother is married to a woman from the Dominican Republic who barely speaks English. My best friend is from Guyana and we have known each other since we were 5-years old. His mother made the best Roti bruh...
Just because I am trying to get our Black people here in America to uplift their own and take pride in who they are doesn't mean I have not encountered people from all over the world. I live in the DMV bruh! One of the most diverse places on the planet.
I'm trying to find where I put down my own culture though? That simply never happened.
As for the premise, the OP's post was short and concise the only real question is an argument over absolute size versus percentage. I had DC around 5-7th most diverse black population. I think that's fair. Somewhere with Orlando, Minneapolis, Seattle. DC certainly has many African blacks but the African American number is huge.
It's like making a soup broth with cumin, pepper, and paprika....and you put in 1 tablespoon of pepper, 2 tablespoons of paprika, and 4 cups of cumin. What's it gonna taste like? Cumin.
You're saying we're not monolithic Cumin, and I'm saying they're not really monolithic pepper either... But it s hard to say "we're not monolithic Cumin" but you can readily point to things and identify them as "DC Culture".
And then we get into the relative lack of linguistic diversity, and lower % share of mixed race blacks and yea. I'm approaching it scientifically.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 10-14-2022 at 03:08 PM..
Thats fine I appreciate this response. As you said Boston's Black American history at least in the modern iteration is limited compared to most other prime-time cities. That's true, not debating that. Yet there's still a culture. I can pretty readily identify Black Bostonians by speech primarily. I can even distinguish the generations by how they end their complaints. I could go into that further somewhere else. And we sort of have on the Black Accent thread. And yes Boston black culture includes West Indians so I talk about it because I'm familiar with it. But it's not a lack of respect for my own culture and the people who raised me. That's so very far off base. But you're viewing it as more vs less and all that when I have a baseline equal level of respect. What do I value more? For me personally, black American culture- particularly Northern black American culture. Meaning like Baltimore and point north, really Philly and north.
I think one of the Boston girls said it lacks culture but the other said diversity. The diversity part is fair. The culture part is not and i think comes from like im already part of this culture and no this its not really culture to me..it just is, like air. And they are just some girls from the hood- i doubt their syntax is on point like that they weren't tryna make an intelligent C-D argument. Most people notice culture more when it's a culture that isn't their own. That stands out. If you actually had to seat wings and crabs every day you'd want something else and wouldn't feel you were eating a diverse assortment.
I don't think to say DC lacks culture, at all. Well, white DC does. I learned a lot about DC culture from DC natives, I went to the barbershop with a good friend down there, played ball with them, ate the food, listened to the music, went to the hoods, went to the museums, went to the clubs, and went to the burbs. It just lacks a diversity of black cultures relative to what I'm used to and certainly relative to New York City in particular. I think it's tryna have it both ways when people in ATL or DC espouse black unity but then also espouse cultural diversity. Imntosaying you have to pick one or the other entirely, but some things gotta give a little.
But it'd be odd if I grew up for 25 years with a bunch of West Indian and Cape Verdean people who were my friends and mentors and weren't familiar or didn't respect their culture.
In the context of this question regarding the balance of Caribbean, American, and African black cultures which was the premise- I answer according to that. It just is. Now if we want to talk about Black American Cultural diversity that's something else entirely. You noted DC has its own strong local culture, which seems it would limit some of that diversity. I've said in the past its an amalgamation of black cultures from all over. I think it's more of a melting pot than a salad type mix though. Those regional flares get sort of compressed into DC.
In Boston, many many of the African Americans are from other places originally. But I absolutely don't get the vibes of these states when I'm around them. They either adopt the Boston mixed pot black culture or (try to?)assimialte into the white culutre until they move. Even our Black Governor was from out of state. Ayanna Pressley is. As are two of our Black City Councilors. Every single Black writer at the Boston Globe is from another state.
I often make this argument to people, and it applies here to. The culture you experience in any place is heavily influences by who is presenting it to you. DC has tons of West Indian people all over the region and people experience that culture weekly. It just depends on what circles you roll in. That is a luxury of places with millions of Black people from around the world.
I have been to tons of reggae spots throughout my lifetime and grew up around many West Indian people. I will point out that many West Indian people I know were born in America.
Maybe the West Indian people in DC don't broadcast their culture as much as those in Boston? Maybe they assimilate to DC's Black culture more because it's so prevalent and strong while Boston's local American Black culture is low key and hidden?
The significance of the first clip below of the Howard Theater which holds their reggae party about 4 times per year is that the Howard Theater is the first Black theater in America built in 1910 that was created for Black people to serve Black people and was run by Black people on the U Street corridor in the Shaw neighborhood of DC which will always be the first Black Broadway in America.
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You can't have 1/10th or 1/12th the Black population of DC, and then claim it's more diverse than the DC area. Doesn't work that way. I'd say DC has easily 3rd or 4th most diverse, mainly after NYC, but Houston, Miami, and Atlanta have their strengths too. DC metro area is #1 or 2 in way too many foreign countries for Black people for any other cities than those to be considered more diverse in it's Black population.
The DC area also has more AA Blacks from different corners of the country as it's the most transient metropolis in the United States.
Generally in DC they dont play as many deep cuts from the Reggae, Ragga era as Boston. The music is a bit more "mainstream" dancehall. This is probably because more people move to DC AFTER they've touched down further north and become a bit more Americanized.. Reggae is not very mainstream in any scenario so long as you avoid Bob Marley and old white stoners.
But the thing is while Boston has ample reggae /dancehall and Afrobeat outings. There is also much more Zouk, Kompa, Reggaeton, DR Hip hop, and Cape Verdean musical styles.
If anything (Neo-)Soul and Gospel is lacking. They're around, but not too popular. But RnB and Jazz are fairly popular in the black community. Definitely can find RnB events like the Silk RnB party or Love and RnB. There's still 2 and soon to be 3 black-owned Jazz lounges. House Music lacks compared to NY/NJ but was more popular when I was young.
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BostonBorn you've got to stop the boosting...To insinuate that Boston is the most diverse Black population in the country, might be one of the most asinine points I've heard here.
Totals do matter. You may believe this makes your case in aggregate but when breaking down nationalities and how many Black people come from individual countries all of this gets wiped off the board.
Boston
517k Blacks
35.9% Black Foreign Born (187k)
19.3% Mixed Race
13.7% Hispanic Blacks (71k)
31.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
66.5% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Miami
1.4M Blacks
35.2% Black Foreign Born (484k)
6.6 %Mixed Race
6.9% Hispanic Blacks (96k)
2.5% of Black Immigrants from Africa
96.6% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
New York
3.6M Blacks
28.9% Black Foreign born (1.061M)
8.3% Mixed Race
10.8% Hispanic Blacks (391k)
17.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
80.0% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Providence
138k Blacks
26.5% Black Foreign Born (37k)
23.4% Mixed Race
13.2% Hispanic Blacks (18k)
N % of Black Immigrants from Africa
N % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Minneapolis
383k Blacks
27.6% Black Foreign Born (106K)
17% Mixed Race
2% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
93.8% of Black Immigrants from Africa
4.9% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Seattle
383k Blacks
22.6% Black Foreign Born (106K)
26.3% Mixed Race
4.2% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
84.2% of Black Immigrants from Africa
12.8% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Orlando
485k Blacks
21.9% Black Foreign Born (106K)
9.4% Mixed Race
6.1% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
4.8% of Black Immigrants from Africa
93.1% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Hartford
168k Blacks
20.2% Black Foreign Born(34k)
19.4% Mixed Race
9.3% Hispanic Blacks (15k)
NA % of Black Immigrants from Africa
NA % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Washington DC
1.7M Blacks
15.2% Foreign born(262k)
7.1% Mixed Race
2.8% Hispanic Blacks (48.5k)
74.8 % of Black Immigrants from Africa
23.2 % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Houston
1.3M Blacks
10.0% Foreign Born (131k)
6.5% Mixed Race
2.9% Hispanic Blacks (38k)
73.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
25.2% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Dallas
1.3M Blacks
9.6% Black Foreign Born (127k)
7.7% Mixed Race
2.5% Hispanic Blacks (33k)
84.4% of Black Immigrants from Africa
12.0% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Atlanta
2.2M Blacks
8% Black Foreign Born (183k)
4.3% Mixed Race
1.9% Hispanic Blacks (41k)
47.1 % of Black Immigrants from Africa
48.9 % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Boston has a small Black population as a region, so of course percentages in aggregate look good, but this does not break down country by country, nationality or ancestry. DC as an example has double digit countries from the continent of Africa with 10's of thousands of African immigrants. That alone devours all of the rest of your percentage totals from other places. Even for hispanic Blacks (as if that's even accurately counted in the Census) which it isn't, DC has 10% less than Boston, but in actuality the total is only about 22k difference in total people. We also have no idea or telling what someone means, when they actually fill out "Mixed Race" on their Census application.
What we do know is countries by different countries of origin, both total and percentage after NYC, the DC area runs up the numbers Black immigrants.
Saying GoGo will die in DC is like saying reggae will die in Jamaica. Reggae and GoGo aren't music, they are cultural identity. I would give another American example, but there aren't any. GoGo to DC is the only equivalent to what reggae is to Jamaica. If GoGo dies, it won't be in my lifetime.
billboard has stopped tracking the top 200 reggae hits chart starting this year:
You can't have 1/10th or 1/12th the Black population of DC, and then claim it's more diverse than the DC area. Doesn't work that way. I'd say DC has easily 3rd or 4th most diverse, mainly after NYC, but Houston, Miami, and Atlanta have their strengths too. DC metro area is #1 or 2 in way too many foreign countries for Black people for any other cities than those to be considered more diverse in it's Black population.
The DC area also has more AA Blacks from different corners of the country as it's the most transient metropolis in the United States.
Yes. Because we're not talking about the racial diversity of the MSA. That was never mentioned.
We're talking about the ethnic diversity of the black population. Of course, you know this already...
As I said earlier Boston outnumbers DC in raw numbers on at least 7 Caribbean countries and several African countries as well lol..with 1/4th the black population. It's not as close as you think it is. Again I lived there- and in comparison to Boston or Providence, it felt very AA. Like to the point where it's a solid tier below.
No reasonable person would say DCs black population is more diverse than Bostons. Unless they're a DC booster or wholly unacquainted with Boston's black population. It's not reasonable in the context of diversity. But you could say it has a larger black international population in the MSA because that actually true.
So if you're weighing size it's larger in the MSA but only a maybe on the CSA level and of course down on the city level.
Generally in DC they dont play as many deep cuts from the Reggae, Ragga era as Boston. The music is a bit more "mainstream" dancehall. This is probably because more people move to DC AFTER they've touched down further north and become a bit more Americanized.. Reggae is not very mainstream in any scenario so long as you avoid Bob Marley and old white stoners.
But the thing is while Boston has ample reggae /dancehall and Afrobeat outings. There is also much more Zouk, Kompa, Reggaeton, DR Hip hop, and Cape Verdean musical styles.
If anything (Neo-)Soul and Gospel is lacking. They're around, but not too popular. But RnB and Jazz are fairly popular in the black community. Definitely can find RnB events like the Silk RnB party or Love and RnB. There's still 2 and soon to be 3 black-owned Jazz lounges. House Music lacks compared to NY/NJ but was more popular when I was young.
You can see those artists in DC. The only difference is the crowd and venue will probably be larger. I don't know if you prefer smaller venues and crowds versus large crowds and large venues. DC venues tend to be large and obviously the crowds are huge based on the amount of Black people DC has.
BostonBorn you've got to stop the boosting...To insinuate that Boston is the most diverse Black population in the country, might be one of the most asinine points I've heard here.
Totals do matter. You may believe this makes your case in aggregate but when breaking down nationalities and how many Black people come from individual countries all of this gets wiped off the board.
Boston
517k Blacks
35.9% Black Foreign Born (187k)
19.3% Mixed Race
13.7% Hispanic Blacks (71k)
31.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
66.5% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Miami
1.4M Blacks
35.2% Black Foreign Born (484k)
6.6 %Mixed Race
6.9% Hispanic Blacks (96k)
2.5% of Black Immigrants from Africa
96.6% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
New York
3.6M Blacks
28.9% Black Foreign born (1.061M)
8.3% Mixed Race
10.8% Hispanic Blacks (391k)
17.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
80.0% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Providence
138k Blacks
26.5% Black Foreign Born (37k)
23.4% Mixed Race
13.2% Hispanic Blacks (18k)
N % of Black Immigrants from Africa
N % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Minneapolis
383k Blacks
27.6% Black Foreign Born (106K)
17% Mixed Race
2% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
93.8% of Black Immigrants from Africa
4.9% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Seattle
383k Blacks
22.6% Black Foreign Born (106K)
26.3% Mixed Race
4.2% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
84.2% of Black Immigrants from Africa
12.8% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Orlando
485k Blacks
21.9% Black Foreign Born (106K)
9.4% Mixed Race
6.1% Hispanic Blacks (8k)
4.8% of Black Immigrants from Africa
93.1% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Hartford
168k Blacks
20.2% Black Foreign Born(34k)
19.4% Mixed Race
9.3% Hispanic Blacks (15k)
NA % of Black Immigrants from Africa
NA % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Washington DC
1.7M Blacks
15.2% Foreign born(262k)
7.1% Mixed Race
2.8% Hispanic Blacks (48.5k)
74.8 % of Black Immigrants from Africa
23.2 % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Houston
1.3M Blacks
10.0% Foreign Born (131k)
6.5% Mixed Race
2.9% Hispanic Blacks (38k)
73.7% of Black Immigrants from Africa
25.2% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Dallas
1.3M Blacks
9.6% Black Foreign Born (127k)
7.7% Mixed Race
2.5% Hispanic Blacks (33k)
84.4% of Black Immigrants from Africa
12.0% of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Atlanta
2.2M Blacks
8% Black Foreign Born (183k)
4.3% Mixed Race
1.9% Hispanic Blacks (41k)
47.1 % of Black Immigrants from Africa
48.9 % of Black Immigrants from the Caribbean
Boston has a small Black population as a region, so of course percentages in aggregate look good, but this does not break down country by country, nationality or ancestry. DC as an example has double digit countries from the continent of Africa with 10's of thousands of African immigrants. That alone devours all of the rest of your percentage totals from other places. Even for hispanic Blacks (as if that's even accurately counted in the Census) which it isn't, DC has 10% less than Boston, but in actuality the total is only about 22k difference in total people. We also have no idea or telling what someone means, when they actually fill out "Mixed Race" on their Census application.
What we do know is countries by different countries of origin, both total and percentage after NYC, the DC area runs up the numbers Black immigrants.
There are so many countries where Boston is within 600 people of DC but the difference of 22,000 black Hispanics is insignificant. Please tap back into reality resident.
Many posters from the beginning of this thread already noted Boston over DC or Atlanta. Including the OP...
It's clearly not asinine. And any serious sociologist and demographer would agree with me.
DC is an African American-dominated black population. Boston has no dominant group even approaching AA numbers. cite all the countries you want. It still doesn't negate the fact that 83% of the DMVs black folks belong to one group. I cant belive this is even i the realm of reality for you. It's not boosting its just simple data and simple math. If the African American population were smaller DC would win out..but its not so it doesnt.
This would be like saying that 83% West African blood isn't black because they're 5% welsh, 3% English 2% Norweigan etc etc. No one IRL would take you seriously. They'd be like he's black and having an identity crisis. DC is an AA city and your having an identity crisis, I was there so you cant really "fool" me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Yes. Because we're not talking about the racial diversity of the MSA. That was never mentioned.
We're talking about the ethnic diversity of the black population. Of course, you know this already...
As I said earlier Boston outnumbers DC in raw numbers on at least 7 Caribbean countries and several African countries as well lol..with 1/4th the black population. It's not as close as you think it is. Again I lived there- and in comparison to Boston or Providence, it felt very AA. Like to the point where it's a solid tier below.
No reasonable person would say DCs black population is more diverse than Bostons. Unless they're a DC booster or wholly unacquainted with Boston's black population. It's not reasonable in the context of diversity. But you could say it has a larger black international population in the MSA because that actually true.
So if you're weighing size it's larger in the MSA but only a maybe on the CSA level and of course down on the city level.
I'm referring to nationalities/ethnicities...Boston has a more diverse Caribbean population than DC, and that's it. Credit to Boston/Prov on Cape Verdeans being a distinct group from that continent, but DC has the most diverse African population in the US aside from New York City, and it's closer to a tie than anything.
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