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Except that's really a matter of opinion and really isn't borne out by the objective facts. NoVA is brought up very often because it's so starkly different from the rest of Virginia.
One could certainly say the same about the Philly area the rest of PA, but the NoVA v. RoVA comparison seems even starker. This economic distress map from 2018 really speaks for itself:
Likely not even a statistically significant difference, but nonetheless, the claim that rural VA is somehow better off than rural PA is clearly an unfounded one.
The problem with this map is the same as maps depicting U.S. presidential results by county: they don't take population density into account.
That's not the point. Many on here have been trying to paint this picture that makes it seems as though all of VA from mountains to coast from NC to MD is just overflowing with wealth and opportunities and looking brightly into the future, while PA is reminiscent of a collapsing Soviet Union on the brink of death. It's just not true. Outside of Nova, VA is quite impoverished and not on this giant upward trajectory that people claim the entire state to be. Nobody is claiming that PA's economy is the beacon of greatness, but the fact is that VA's, as a whole, is either just as good as, or slightly worse, than PA's.
Likely not even a statistically significant difference, but nonetheless, the claim that rural VA is somehow better off than rural PA is clearly an unfounded one.
Thanks for providing that info. Instinctively one probably wouldn't guess that the difference was that small just by looking at the map.
That's not the point. Many on here have been trying to paint this picture that makes it seems as though all of VA from mountains to coast from NC to MD is just overflowing with wealth and opportunities and looking brightly into the future, while PA is reminiscent of a collapsing Soviet Union on the brink of death. It's just not true. Outside of Nova, VA is quite impoverished and not on this giant upward trajectory that people claim the entire state to be. Nobody is claiming that PA's economy is the beacon of greatness, but the fact is that VA's, as a whole, is either just as good as, or slightly worse, than PA's.
There is a lot of variation within both states, but it is not even remotely true that most of the non-Washington metro part of Virginia is "impoverished". The Richmond and Charlottesville metro areas have income levels above the national average, and greater Virginia Beach/Norfolk is close. The more depressed areas of Virginia are much further south and west, and while arguably consisting of a few dozen counties have a low (and decreasing) share of the state's population.
The more depressed areas of Virginia are much further south and west, and while arguably consisting of a few dozen counties have a low (and decreasing) share of the state's population.
The same could be said of PA, too, however. There's an obvious correlation between economic distress and population loss.
The only parts of any state experiencing growth will be in its prosperous regions, with rare exception.
If having access to as many facts as possible to get a clear picture of the state of things is important, then yes it is a valid point.
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Many on here have been trying to paint this picture that makes it seems as though all of VA from mountains to coast from NC to MD is just overflowing with wealth and opportunities and looking brightly into the future, while PA is reminiscent of a collapsing Soviet Union on the brink of death. It's just not true. Outside of Nova, VA is quite impoverished and not on this giant upward trajectory that people claim the entire state to be. Nobody is claiming that PA's economy is the beacon of greatness, but the fact is that VA's, as a whole, is either just as good as, or slightly worse, than PA's.
I'm definitely not co-signing such exaggerations about either state, but I also don't believe that NoVA is the only part of Virginia that enjoys a measure of prosperity. Although not as affluent on the whole as NoVA, Greater Richmond and Hampton Roads are most certainly not "quite impoverished" (Charlottesville also, although a small place) and do well for themselves as economically stable midsized metro areas. Using the data provided by Duderino, the vast majority of people in both states reside outside of economically distressed zip codes, which is a good thing.
I think that it's so easy for some to paint these extreme pictures for both states because in Virginia, those poor Appalachian counties in particular have historically been very much "out of sight, out of mind" and lacked the industrial base that more the more rural and smaller urban areas of Pennsylvania used to have until those local economies collapsed. When industries decline in a spectacular fashion, that is sure to get a lot of media coverage compared to places that have always been invisible for the most part.
And to state the obvious, there's really no state that's going to be socioeconomically uniform. With rare exceptions, it will always be the larger metropolitan areas accounting for the prosperity while in the South and mid-Atlantic, rural areas are most often the primary source of the unfavorable metrics.
If having access to as many facts as possible to get a clear picture of the state of things is important, then yes it is a valid point.
I'm definitely not co-signing such exaggerations about either state, but I also don't believe that NoVA is the only part of Virginia that enjoys a measure of prosperity. Although not as affluent on the whole as NoVA, Greater Richmond and Hampton Roads are most certainly not "quite impoverished" (Charlottesville also, although a small place) and do well for themselves as economically stable midsized metro areas. Using the data provided by Duderino, the vast majority of people in both states reside outside of economically distressed zip codes, which is a good thing.
I think that it's so easy for some to paint these extreme pictures for both states because in Virginia, those poor Appalachian counties in particular have historically been very much "out of sight, out of mind" and lacked the industrial base that more the more rural and smaller urban areas of Pennsylvania used to have until those local economies collapsed. When industries decline in a spectacular fashion, that is sure to get a lot of media coverage compared to places that have always been invisible for the most part.
Sorry yes I meant to exclude Richmond and Hampton Roads areas. And Charlottesville is not impoverished, but quite small. But yes the out of sight out of mind thinking must be what's going on here. Because PA doesn't shy away from the fact that Central PA is struggling. PA admits that it has problems and needs to address them. OTOH, though, a lot of people seem to have blinders on with VA and just look at Nova succeeding and leave out the southern, western, and southwestern portions of the state. Richmond will stay going strong and as long as there is military and nice beaches in the eastern half, that area will remain steady as well.
But it really has seemed like a lot of people on here want to dismiss all the rural poor parts of VA and focus on Nova, while forcing PA to answer for its poverty in Central PA. Neither is a good look for anyone. Idk what the answer is for helping either region. But as it stands, it's impossible to state that VA is better than PA simply because PA needs to answer for its Central PA rural poverty.
Aside from the economic issues, though, Central PA is at least a very beautiful region. I'm sure SW VA is too.
Sorry yes I meant to exclude Richmond and Hampton Roads areas. And Charlottesville is not impoverished, but quite small. But yes the out of sight out of mind thinking must be what's going on here. Because PA doesn't shy away from the fact that Central PA is struggling. PA admits that it has problems and needs to address them. OTOH, though, a lot of people seem to have blinders on with VA and just look at Nova succeeding and leave out the southern, western, and southwestern portions of the state. Richmond will stay going strong and as long as there is military and nice beaches in the eastern half, that area will remain steady as well.
But it really has seemed like a lot of people on here want to dismiss all the rural poor parts of VA and focus on Nova, while forcing PA to answer for its poverty in Central PA. Neither is a good look for anyone. Idk what the answer is for helping either region. But as it stands, it's impossible to state that VA is better than PA simply because PA needs to answer for its Central PA rural poverty.
Aside from the economic issues, though, Central PA is at least a very beautiful region. I'm sure SW VA is too.
Yeah I think for a lot of people, it can seem as though the state of PA has failed its residents in the central part of the state by failing to replace lost industry and restore some prosperity to the region whereas in VA, there seems to be less obligation to industrialize parts of the state that were never industrialized to begin with and that the folks who live there like it just as it is. Of course the reality is not so simple or cut-and-dried, but I wouldn't be surprised if those perceptions are prevalent.
The same could be said of PA, too, however. There's an obvious correlation between economic distress and population loss.
The only parts of any state experiencing growth will be in its prosperous regions, with rare exception.
Population trends are certainly not the only indicator of a location's well-being, as metro Pittsburgh (for instance) is successful in many respects despite the number of residents going down for years.
But as a whole, the prosperous sections of Pennsylvania are seeing considerably less growth than Virginia's more dynamic, populous areas. Pennsylvania is consistent with the Northeast US in general in that there are virtually no counties exceeding the national growth rate - which is very different from Virginia.
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