Pennsylvania v. Virginia (moving, skyscrapers, downtown, size)

[rowhomecity]

Most on here are selecting just a few of the criteria that was to be compared and do not present any substantial explanation.

I presented facts. And substance behind each of these wins below. Many from Virginia have not recognized any of the substantial realities that Virginia faces outside of its NOVA region.


QOL: Tie - Both have some very prosperous suburban areas. Both have some top performing public schools. And both have poor rural populations.

Public Transit: Pennsylvania - While WMATA does operate in NOVA, total coverage area is greater with SEPTA than WMATA. Also Pittsburgh has a substantial transit system and has one of the highest percentages of car free residents in the USA.

Universities: Pennsylvania Virginia has some great schools. UVA, JMU, George Mason, William & Mary, University of Richmond. But Pennsylvania has more Universities and equally if not more top tier. University of Pennsylvania (Ivy League), Carnegie Mellon (ranks the same or if not better than UVA), Villanova, Penn State, University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Gettysburg and many more. Pennsylvania ranks 4th for # of Universities. Virginia is 15. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...-colleges.html

Economy: Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania has a larger economy. And substantially so read below:

Pennsylvania GDP is 817 Billion, ranked 6th in the USA.

Virginia is ranked 13th with GDP of 557 Billion.

Yes NOVA is growing astromically and it certainly pulls its weight. But the economic growth of Philadelphia (2nd largest city on East Coast) is more substantial and much larger in scale.

The reality is there is no major city located in Virginia and one reason why Virginia ranks at its standing.

Pennsylvania GDP per capita is nearly identical with Virginia. Pennsylvania is $55,580 compared to Virginia which is $56,002.

And to NOVA's shock, Pennsylvania economy is growing faster than Virginia's. Percentage change in real GDP growth in 2019. Pennsylvania 2.1% compared to Virginia's 1.6%. Pennsylvania actually has one of the most robust economies in the Mid Atlantic currently. Here is a link with the factual data. https://www.bea.gov/system/files/qgdpstate_large.png

Wealth:Virginia but not by much. Southeast Pennsylvania can more than hold its own with its quantity of Old Money dispersed not just on the Main Line, but in central Montgomery and central Bucks County. Our quaker roots would never let you know. Showy wealth is frowned upon, and while you find most estates and multi million dollar homes tucked away amongst lush landscaping, not golf course subdivisions. The data is factual that NOVA does have money, and I will not deny this. The fact is though, its not by much. And as I stated before, rural Virginia is actually more impoverished and poorer than rural Pennsylvania.

Vibrancy: Pennsylvania With two major vibrant cities, and a myriad of historical small towns, Pennsylvania has more vibrant urban centers.

Character: Pennsylvania Virginia definitely has character, but NOVA suburbs are not as old, and lack the historic architecture, outside of Alexandria. Pennsylvania has many many small historic towns, villages, cities. The largest historic residential neighborhood in the USA, and VA has nothing on Lancaster County and its charm and character.

Suburbs: Pennsylvania You could say this is based more on personal preference. I much prefer Southeast Pennsylvania and its charming historic towns and village centers abounding with historic architecture, than NOVA and its new build suburban/urban qualities.

Schools: Tie - I think both states offer excellent public education systems. With extremely strong public schools in NOVA and SEPA and better than average in the remaining areas.

Urban Cores: Pennsylvania. No comparison. Pennsylvania has two major cities, and historic, dense walk able small cities with vibrant urban cores.

Diversity: Virginia Without a doubt, the more diverse state.

Shopping: Pennsylvania King of Prussia is the largest retail mall in the nation.

Food: Pennsylvania Philadelphia is one of the top food cities in the USA. Not to mention the deep history of many famous regional foods throughout the state.

Road Network/Traffic: Wash Virginia has the more substantial and modern freeway system. But Pennsylvania has less congested traffic. Mostly based on its superior commuter rail network.

Sports: Pennsylvania Virginia is the only large state with no professional sports teams located within it. And no D.C teams do not count. Pennsylvania has 2 NFL, 2 MLB, 2 NHL, 1 NBA, 1 MLS. Virginia has zero. What does Virginia have? The Virginia what? The Richmond what? It just simply does not.

Quick Getaways/Recreation/Parks: Pennsylvania Pennsylvania has a superior location on the mid atlantic. SEPA is closer to the beaches than NOVA. And then add in the Poconos, NYC and DC all in 2 hours or less drive and you cannot compare.

Economic Future: Wash Yes Virginia is growing at a faster clip in population, but again many in Virginia forget that Philadelphia is going through a total renaissance, that outscales the suburbs of NOVA. The new Comcast tower alone was $1.2 Billion. The economic indicators has Pennsylvania's economic growth at a faster clip. I do not think Virginia is a slouch though and see these two states competing neck and neck.

Job/Housing Market: Pennsylvania I am factoring housing as one of the biggest impediments to NOVA's sustainable and continued growth. SEPA housing cost are significantly less.

Nightlife/Entertainment: Pennsylvania Without any large city within its boundaries this is no contest.

History/Museums: Pennsylvania Yes, Virginia has history. But Philadelphia is where this nation was founded, and is considered one of the most historic places in the USA. There is just more history in Pennsylvania on a more significant scale. And a good chunk of Virginia and Richmond's history is honestly admonishing and embarrassing.

Theater/Art: Pennsylvania There is no substantial quality of theater or fine arts located within the state on any level worth notating.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

It's not ridiculous. It's the same way that NJ can claim its wealth and lifestyle thanks to bordering both NYC and Philly, but it can't actually says that the state is better than another because of that. I think there have been a few threads or at least discussions of MA v. NJ. MA as a state is arguably better than NJ as a state because Boston is more a central hub than anything in NJ is. MA is a more complete state than NJ since NJ does heavily rely on major cities in other cities for its wealth and lifestyle. It has its own amenities like the shore, Hudson County for urban living, amazing suburbs with awesome schools and pretty robust suburban downtowns, a statewide transit system, beautiful rural and hilly areas in the northwest, etc. However, NJ as a state can not beat many other states since it doesn't actually have a major city like Boston, NYC, Philly, or DC within its borders.

You can argue that VA's wealth and lifestyle is improved by bordering DC, but you cannot claim that VA is better than PA simply because it has DC next door. VA has no real major city to call its own, the same way NJ has no real major city to call its own. Yet, if we had to say, NJ does have the more important and major city of the two since both Newark and Hudson County could be their own major hubs on their own were they not enveloped in the NYC sphere of influence.

However, the fact is that PA actually contains two major metro areas. Nova is not its own metro area. It belongs to DMV's sphere of influence, the same way NNJ is not its own metro and it belongs to the NYC sphere of influence. So you may prefer Nova for being within commuting distance to DC and within its metro, but you can't actually say that VA>PA because VA has DC nearby.

Despite having an ocean port, VA does not have a true major city

PA is also considerably more densely populated than VA.

If it weren't for military/political shows or movies that mention Alexandria or Falls Church etc, would the average person ever even hear about Virginia?

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by jessemh431

It's not ridiculous. It's the same way that NJ can claim its wealth and lifestyle thanks to bordering both NYC and Philly, but it can't actually says that the state is better than another because of that. I think there have been a few threads or at least discussions of MA v. NJ. MA as a state is arguably better than NJ as a state because Boston is more a central hub than anything in NJ is. MA is a more complete state than NJ since NJ does heavily rely on major cities in other cities for its wealth and lifestyle. It has its own amenities like the shore, Hudson County for urban living, amazing suburbs with awesome schools and pretty robust suburban downtowns, a statewide transit system, beautiful rural and hilly areas in the northwest, etc. However, NJ as a state can not beat many other states since it doesn't actually have a major city like Boston, NYC, Philly, or DC within its borders.

You can argue that VA's wealth and lifestyle is improved by bordering DC, but you cannot claim that VA is better than PA simply because it has DC next door. VA has no real major city to call its own, the same way NJ has no real major city to call its own. Yet, if we had to say, NJ does have the more important and major city of the two since both Newark and Hudson County could be their own major hubs on their own were they not enveloped in the NYC sphere of influence.

However, the fact is that PA actually contains two major metro areas. Nova is not its own metro area. It belongs to DMV's sphere of influence, the same way NNJ is not its own metro and it belongs to the NYC sphere of influence. So you may prefer Nova for being within commuting distance to DC and within its metro, but you can't actually say that VA>PA because VA has DC nearby.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but to say that VA can't claim NOVA is absolutely, positively RIDICULOUS and the very height of absurdity.

Furthermore, the situation with the DC metro area is unique anyway since DC itself does not belong to any state. If it weren't for the federal government mandating that DC be where it is, who knows if Richmond or Norfolk might have grown into something much bigger.

Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but making VA drop NOVA in this matchup because the principal city itself isn't in VA (it's not in any state by federal law) is just dumb, dumb, dumb.

[cdw1084]

Originally Posted by Losfrisco

Despite having an ocean port, VA does not have a true major city

PA is also considerably more densely populated than VA.

If it weren't for military/political shows or movies that mention Alexandria or Falls Church etc, would the average person ever even hear about Virginia?

LOL..hearing about a state only gauges popularity. Virginia punches above its weight and even without a major city, it does well with mid-size cities and it houses some of the most important national government facilities in Northern Virginia. Speaking of NOVA, that area strengthens VA and the entire DMV area in the bigger scheme of things.

[Need4Camaro]

Virginia not including the entire D.C. metro area - Pennsylvania easily.
Virignia including the entire D.C. metro area - its close... D.C. edges out Philly for me, but for the rest of the state, Pennsylvania.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Virginia not including the entire D.C. metro area - Pennsylvania easily.
Virignia including the entire D.C. metro area - its close... D.C. edges out Philly for me, but for the rest of the state, Pennsylvania.

This sums it up-without adding a massive population/job center located outside of Virginia, its hard to even have a poll.

[Foamposite]

Originally Posted by spencer114

The font on signage. The dull paint. The empty storefronts. The glass in office building windows. The lobby design of the high rises, the fixtures in the malls (I’m sure the suburban malls are updated but I don’t hang out in suburbs when I travel). The dreadfully outdated subway stations. The types of tourist shops. This stories told with the historic markers aren’t very woke (who the city celebrates seems pretty selective).

It’s lively and I really love Philadelphia but landscape design and art direction in general is lacking. It doesn’t lack compared to Richmond of course, but it feels a good 25 years culturally behind Washington and New York. It appears to be catching up really quickly though. There are apartment buildings/infill popping up like mad (if the view from the train and the highway is any indication). The newly renovated restaurants and boutiques are lovely.

What makes New York cool isn't the "new" but more so the "old"

I'm from New York and find Philly to be more analagous to us than we are to DC or anywhere in Virginia for that matter.

[Losfrisco]

Originally Posted by cdw1084

LOL..hearing about a state only gauges popularity. Virginia punches above its weight and even without a major city, it does well with mid-size cities and it houses some of the most important national government facilities in Northern Virginia. Speaking of NOVA, that area strengthens VA and the entire DMV area in the bigger scheme of things.

Yeah this totally competes with PA producing more steel than all of the Axis powers combined during the war, its educational institutions and per-capita wealth generated from raw industry and innovation.


Walk up to any person in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, probably Erie, Harrisburg, Lehigh Valley, etc. and tell them that Pennsylvania could raise its profile by having more federal government facilities. That would probably be the funniest joke they've heard in a while.

Ocean coast with ports and no major city? How do you even do that?

[Duderino]

Also, with all due respect to DC, I can tell you that the idea that the nation's capital is an exporter of anything "hip" or "cool" (or anything of real cultural interest) to Philadelphians is patently laughable. Philly is a city over twice DC's size and about 100 years its senior.

Philly has been a true cultural hub since the 1800s and has a massive grassroots arts/creative scene that DC frankly will never have. Philadelphians look to New York for some creative inspiration; never to a city that literally operates on the very industry of bureaucracy.

DC has much to brag about, but natural hipness and creativity (as opposed to corporate trendiness) are about the last two descriptors I can think of for that city.

[the resident09]

^^^ Moderators this is a DC vs Philly thread??