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I actually think Nashville is often very underrated in terms of urban build on these boards. It reminds me a bit of Tampa, in that it has the urban bones, but doesn't quite capitalize on it.
If Nashville isn't capitalizing on it now with all the new construction going on there, then something's wrong.
For me, the city with great urban bones that truly fails to capitalize on it is easily Jacksonville. And those bones go well beyond downtown into surrounding neighborhoods, with an extensive grid system and a wide, scenic river running through downtown to boot.
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Originally Posted by Joakim3
Birmingham is still one of my favorite cities I've been to. I was stationed in Mississippi for half a year and went there for one of the Alabama Tuscaloosa games.
Downtown definitely gives off a mini NE coast city vibe with a southern twang to it!
Yes I agree. Its industrial legacy left the city with a pretty structurally dense and historic core that has been pretty well-preserved, ironically because of the massive white flight that happened in the post-Civil Rights era which left the city with an eroded tax base. So those buildings sat there for decades until earlier this century when cities began regaining popularity and they found new life as lofts, restaurants, cultural venues, food halls, etc.
If Nashville isn't capitalizing on it now with all the new construction going on there, then something's wrong.
There are a few reasons (not to be confused with justifications) for this.
1.Warehouses/Public housing: Immediate areas adjacent to the downtown core are filled with older warehouses, public housing, and industrial wastelands. These areas would normally be residential and commercially developed, as is the case in cities like Louisville and Cincinnati with Jeffersonville, New Albany, Newport, Covington etc.
2. Interstate Spaghetti: The three major interstates are positioned in a way that limits Nashville's ability to expand the downtown grid.
3. Cumberland River: This is a natural barrier to growth considering the fact that the city relies on developers to fund infrastructure improvements and has not quite maximized the riverfront function (greenway, pedestrian bridges, retail/restaurants). The river snakes its way through the city. River North and New North Nashville developments may resolve this in the future.
4. Restrictive development policies: Nashville did not allow residential construction until the mid 2000s downtown, so there is still a lag in this area.
5. Historic urban renewal: Much like Oklahoma City, Nashville removed a lot of history. Former downtown mansions, rowhomes (yes there were some), and older mid/high rise commercial spaces were wiped clean and replaced with parking lots and suburban type of developments.
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For me, the city with great urban bones that truly fails to capitalize on it is easily Jacksonville. And those bones go well beyond downtown into surrounding neighborhoods, with an extensive grid system and a wide, scenic river running through downtown to boot.
Jacksonville makes no sense to me. The city is truly the perfect urban grid much in the same way Indianapolis presents itself. Flat, great bones, great infrastructure, and still looking the same for decades.
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Yes I agree. Its industrial legacy left the city with a pretty structurally dense and historic core that has been pretty well-preserved, ironically because of the massive white flight that happened in the post-Civil Rights era which left the city with an eroded tax base. So those buildings sat there for decades until earlier this century when cities began regaining popularity and they found new life as lofts, restaurants, cultural venues, food halls, etc.
How young? I'm 33, and I don't see the appeal to Nashville.
Atlanta, on the other hand, surprises me each time I visit. Stayed at the Renaissance in Midtown on my last visit, and had a blast sticking to the immediate surrounding area.
Ha that was my hotel!! I mean, not really, but I used to stay there regularly when I was working in Atlanta often...like 5-6 years ago.
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Originally Posted by Mutiny77
For me, the city with great urban bones that truly fails to capitalize on it is easily Jacksonville. And those bones go well beyond downtown into surrounding neighborhoods, with an extensive grid system and a wide, scenic river running through downtown to boot.
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Originally Posted by Shakeesha
Jacksonville makes no sense to me. The city is truly the perfect urban grid much in the same way Indianapolis presents itself. Flat, great bones, great infrastructure, and still looking the same for decades.
Yeah people who know keep harping on this, but it deserves repeating...Jax had so much rich history and a breathtaking urban fabric that has been completely wasted away. I always forget and have to look up the exact number but Jax had one of the longest and busiest streetcar systems in the 1920s to go along with the "great bones."
It's impossible to explain why exactly things have turned out the way they have, but it pretty much all falls on the leadership over the years. We have had some good leaders in certain areas/industries, but most of them didn't have a clue about downtown.
Nashville's core is no different than what Atlanta's core was like in the not-so-distant past (minus MARTA of course). It's really unfair to judge what's essentially a work in progress.
Give it another 10 years or so and Nashville's core will be a completely different place.
There are a few reasons (not to be confused with justifications) for this.
1.Warehouses/Public housing: Immediate areas adjacent to the downtown core are filled with older warehouses, public housing, and industrial wastelands. These areas would normally be residential and commercially developed, as is the case in cities like Louisville and Cincinnati with Jeffersonville, New Albany, Newport, Covington etc.
2. Interstate Spaghetti: The three major interstates are positioned in a way that limits Nashville's ability to expand the downtown grid.
3. Cumberland River: This is a natural barrier to growth considering the fact that the city relies on developers to fund infrastructure improvements and has not quite maximized the riverfront function (greenway, pedestrian bridges, retail/restaurants). The river snakes its way through the city. River North and New North Nashville developments may resolve this in the future.
4. Restrictive development policies: Nashville did not allow residential construction until the mid 2000s downtown, so there is still a lag in this area.
5. Historic urban renewal: Much like Oklahoma City, Nashville removed a lot of history. Former downtown mansions, rowhomes (yes there were some), and older mid/high rise commercial spaces were wiped clean and replaced with parking lots and suburban type of developments.
Reasons 1 and 2 I understand all too well from my time living in Charlotte, but it was been able to neutralize them as obstacles to growth and development thanks to LRT.
As for #3, it seems that Nashville is the large city that has embraced its riverfront the least. On the other hand, you have Chartanooga (another city with great urban bones for its weight class) that fully embraced its river and in doing so, became a national model of urban revitalization. I hope Nashville's riverfront projects are successful.
The fourth reason is a bit surprising. Do you mean multistory residential development or was all residential development restricted downtown until a couple of years into this century?
Reason #5 is a given but I was thinking that the poster who mentioned Nashville's urban bones was mainly referring to what's left.
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Jacksonville makes no sense to me. The city is truly the perfect urban grid much in the same way Indianapolis presents itself. Flat, great bones, great infrastructure, and still looking the same for decades.
And the city consolidated to avoid major losses in its tax base, plus it's been growing at a rapid clip for a good two decades at least so it's not like Northern post-industrial cities that truly got hit with big job and population losses. It really is a puzzling situation and even somewhat irritating. Be a totally declining Rustbelt city with significant urban decay, be a stagnant city with small city limits and a relatively well-preserved historic urban fabric, or be a boomtown that wiped out a huge chunk of your historic stock, opting to be a bright and shiny city of the future. But how do you manage to be a combination of the worst parts of each with great weather and geography? Pick a struggle!
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Originally Posted by projectmaximus
Yeah people who know keep harping on this, but it deserves repeating...Jax had so much rich history and a breathtaking urban fabric that has been completely wasted away. I always forget and have to look up the exact number but Jax had one of the longest and busiest streetcar systems in the 1920s to go along with the "great bones."
It's impossible to explain why exactly things have turned out the way they have, but it pretty much all falls on the leadership over the years. We have had some good leaders in certain areas/industries, but most of them didn't have a clue about downtown.
Everytime I read an article about Jacksonville's history on Ennis's website, I'm always amazed and I think "Why isn't this city's story more well-known?"
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Originally Posted by citidata18
Nashville's core is no different than what Atlanta's core was like in the not-so-distant past (minus MARTA of course). It's really unfair to judge what's essentially a work in progress.
Give it another 10 years or so and Nashville's core will be a completely different place.
Which timeframe in Atlanta's past and I'm assuming you mean more Midtown-like?
Lol, that's the beauty of the Mid-Atlantic, it can "regionally pass" and dominate.
Not really. The people who list DC and Baltimore in topics like these are basically trolling and they know it, especially when there are several poll options listed and neither are on the poll.
Not really. The people who list DC and Baltimore in topics like these are basically trolling and they know it, especially when there are several poll options listed and neither are on the poll.
Trolling or not, there's a grain of truth to it (even though I prefer Mid-Atlantic) and there's truth to it going the other way too. Straight up gateway region.
Trolling or not, there's a grain of truth to it (even though I prefer Mid-Atlantic) and there's truth to it going the other way too. Straight up gateway region.
Which is beyond the boundaries of the discussion at hand, especially when the OP/poll options make it clear they are not being considered. Even if the OP did consider them authentically Southern, it makes perfect sense to exclude them since they are major outliers as it pertains to the subject at hand. So yeah, borderline trolling.
I'm surprised Miami hasn't ranked higher on the poll.
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